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[TowerTalk] Rotor problems and guy replacement

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] Rotor problems and guy replacement
From: ni3p@comcast.net
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 15:30:35 +0000 (UTC)
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>

Help!  My friendly manager at Ham Radio Outlet recommended you guys as the best 
place for good advice ... 



I have a  problem with my HF antenna system.  It is a Rohn 25 tower at 50 feet; 
the one antenna is a Force 12 C3 seven element beam.  My rotor is a Yaesu 
G-800DXA. The cable has been there for about 25 years, the antenna about six 
years, and the rotor about four years. 



The problem is with the Yaesu rotor system.  For the last few months, it does 
not appear to be operating properly.  The symptoms are 

~ It turns very slowly, and seems to "pulse" rather than rotating smoothly; 

~ the speed control seems to have no effect, and the pre-set control does not 
work. 

~ it stops when encountering even the lightest branch on a nearby tree. (I am 
waiting for the tree guy now).  It also sometimes, but not always, will rotate 
over only a limited range - this range can vary from time to time - without 
encountering a branch.   It seems worse in the rain. 



So it could be the rotor, the control unit, or the cable (with its connectors 
at either end) .  So my question is - how can I determine which part of the 
system is at fault without replacing everything?  And if I do decide I need to 
replace it, is there a better choice than the Yaesu product?  I have no 
intention of putting any more of a load on it than the C3. 



Separately, I have been advised that I should look at replacing the current 
guys, which were installed when the tower was originally "planted' around 
1985.  They are currently guyed into trees, which has not been a problem.  
(Ground guying would be better, but that has spousal problems :)). I do need to 
do something about at least two of them (guys are at 25 and 50 feet) because 
the tree needs to be cut out - I am looking at putting a steel post in the 
ground near that location and using that.  However it has been so long since I 
did it that I do not know what the best approach is (wire of Phillystran) and 
what other components I might need.  A simple tutorial would be great, but I 
have not found one on the web. 



Would appreciate any help I can get on these issues.  thanks in advance, 



Steve Oksala 

NI3P 



----- Forwarded Message -----


From: towertalk-request@contesting.com 
To: towertalk@contesting.com 
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 12:01:09 AM 
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 126, Issue 71 

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Today's Topics: 

   1. Re: What rotor should I use (David Gilbert) 
   2. Question for list administrator (John) 
   3. Re: What rotor should I use (Oops) (K8RI) 
   4. Luso towers (Drax Felton) 
   5. Going for it! (K8RI) 
   6. Re: Question for list administrator (Tom Osborne) 
   7. Re: Question for list administrator (Neil Goodell Jr) 
   8. Anyone with bucket truck / lift in Detroit Metro? (Mario) 
   9. Mast material (mike stokes) 
  10. Re: Going for it! (Larry Loen) 
  11. Re: Mast material (Grant Saviers) 


---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Message: 1 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 09:59:56 -0700 
From: David Gilbert <xdavid@cis-broadband.com> 
To: towertalk@contesting.com 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] What rotor should I use 
Message-ID: <51CC6F8C.7060007@cis-broadband.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 


Just look at the physics of it.  Whipping of the elements represents 
stored energy, just as in a spring.  If that energy is released at the 
end of travel it adds to the momentum of the elements that would 
otherwise be due only to their mass.  I'm not saying that aluminum 
elements don't whip, but any antenna with lots of whip is going to put 
more stress on a rotator than an antenna with less whip ... assuming the 
masses are equivalent. 

By the way, given the material properties of fiberglass versus aluminum, 
and without knowing the exact figures, I wouldn't be surprised to learn 
that fiberglass elements also have more mass than comparable aluminum 
elements. 

73, 
Dave   AB7E 



On 6/27/2013 9:38 AM, Steve Dyer wrote: 
> Any large beam, fiberglass tube or aluminum is going to potentially whip in 
> wind. I've never seen any compelling evidence a SteppIR causes any more 
> forces at the rotator than an *equivalently* sized Al beam. 
> 
> 73, 
> Steve 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________ 
>   From: Joe Nuccio <k4nyy@yahoo.com> 
> To: Chris Pinholster <k4win@mac.com> 
> Cc: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com> 
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 5:29 AM 
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] What rotor should I use 
>   
> 
> Hi Chris, 
> 
> Thanks for the input and your experience. 
> 
> 
> The concern seems to that the 36' elements on the SeppIR start 'whipping' 
> back and 
> forth while the antenna is being rotated which puts a lot of stress on the 
> gears when it 
> comes to a stop. Apparently, this 'whipping' action is not of a concern on 
> large beams 
> made out of aluminum. 
> 
> 
> 73,  Joe  K4NYY 
> 
> 



------------------------------ 

Message: 2 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:40:11 -0400 
From: John <jh.graves@verizon.net> 
To: towertalk@contesting.com 
Subject: [TowerTalk] Question for list administrator 
Message-ID: <51CC78FB.6090306@verizon.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 

I am receiving 2 copies of messages to the board. Am I entered twice as 
a member or have I requested multiple copies unknowingly? 

John  /  WA1JG 


------------------------------ 

Message: 3 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:01:16 -0400 
From: K8RI <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net> 
To: towertalk@contesting.com 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] What rotor should I use (Oops) 
Message-ID: <51CC7DEC.3060705@tm.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 


> 
> There is a fully loaded StepIR  (40 through 6 meters) about two blocks 
> from me and I believe he is using either the Ham IV or tail twister. 
> He monitors this list occasionally and might comment. 

Though I'd better check with him to be sure. 
If my memory holds for 5 minutes, instead of the ham series he is using 
an Orion 2800? 

73 

Roger (K8RI) 



------------------------------ 

Message: 4 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:50:41 -0400 
From: "Drax Felton" <draxfelton@gmail.com> 
To: <towertalk@contesting.com> 
Subject: [TowerTalk] Luso towers 
Message-ID: <00a201ce7367$39a1bdd0$ace53970$@com> 
Content-Type: text/plain;        charset="us-ascii" 

  

Has anyone ever installed a Luso tower? 

  

I'd like to ask you some questions  off list.   

Starting with how did you off load the shipping container? 

  

Drax       kb3x 

  

  



------------------------------ 

Message: 5 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 17:12:45 -0400 
From: K8RI <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net> 
To: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com> 
Subject: [TowerTalk] Going for it! 
Message-ID: <51CCAACD.5050906@tm.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 

I decided to bite the bullet and get a contractor for the tower.  I had 
planned on doing a lot, but it's going to be some time before I get a 
lot of use out of my left arm.  I did have a volunteer to dig the hole, 
but the contractor will haul away the dirt, fix the ruts in the yard, 
give me a quote on the rebar cage and get the concrete poured, as well 
as taking it down at its present location and bringing it home. 

Yah, it will cost more, but I'll save nearly a $1000 by not having to 
pump the concrete.  In the end the cost isn't much more and money saved 
was enough to get my wife to agree to the trucks in the North yard. 

BTW I finally found the reason for the strokes.  It took wearing a 
monitor for a few days, but the finally discovered that my heart goes 
into Afib which can cause clots in the one chamber. When it goes back 
into rhythm, it squirts out those clots which can migrate to the brain, 
  They (Cardiologist, Neurologist, and Family Dr) figure they can 
prevent that. 

  Now if they'd discovered that a year ago, I would still be climbing 
towers and flying airplanes.  Still there is a good chance they can 
prevent another occurrence...I hope. Still, life carries no guarantees. 

73, 

Roger (K8RI) 



------------------------------ 

Message: 6 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:24:45 -0700 
From: "Tom Osborne" <w7why@frontier.com> 
To: "Towertalk" <towertalk@contesting.com> 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Question for list administrator 
Message-ID: <CDF334B0BA6E4FD992CC2236279022E7@Tom> 

Hi John 

I only see 1 copy here.  Must be something in your provider.  73 
Tom W7WHY 



I am receiving 2 copies of messages to the board. Am I entered twice as 
a member or have I requested multiple copies unknowingly? 

John  /  WA1JG 




------------------------------ 

Message: 7 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 21:41:21 -0400 
From: Neil Goodell Jr <neil.goodell@myfairpoint.net> 
To: towertalk@contesting.com 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Question for list administrator 
Message-ID: <51CCE9C1.9030100@myfairpoint.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 

I always receive two copy's also... 
never thought nothing of it, until 
John mentioned it... 

Neil / AE1P 


On 6/27/2013 9:24 PM, Tom Osborne wrote: 
> Hi John 
> 
> I only see 1 copy here.  Must be something in your provider.  73 
> Tom W7WHY 
> 
> 
> 
> I am receiving 2 copies of messages to the board. Am I entered twice as 
> a member or have I requested multiple copies unknowingly? 
> 
> John  /  WA1JG 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> TowerTalk mailing list 
> TowerTalk@contesting.com 
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk 
> 
> 



------------------------------ 

Message: 8 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 22:04:42 -0400 
From: "Mario" <marionow@gmail.com> 
To: <towertalk@contesting.com> 
Subject: [TowerTalk] Anyone with bucket truck / lift in Detroit Metro? 
Message-ID: <05ea01ce73a3$dbd47340$937d59c0$@com> 
Content-Type: text/plain;        charset="us-ascii" 

Helllo, 

  

I need to install my HF LDPA on the new 60ft tower . Looking for someone 
with a bucket truck / lift for hire in Detroit Metro. 

  

Please contact me directly for details. 

  

73, 

Mario 

KC8P 

  

  



------------------------------ 

Message: 9 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 23:35:39 -0400 
From: mike stokes <mike9v@gmail.com> 
To: "Tower and HF antenna construction topics." 
        <towertalk@contesting.com> 
Subject: [TowerTalk] Mast material 
Message-ID: 
        <CAF3X6dKn6NOdxpm4y+ijx59gm68U-K6U_vD8oQyA9hHmnVPmUA@mail.gmail.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 

I have a line one some used masts.  Both aluminum and steel.  Is there 
an easy way to determine if they are actually tubing or pipe ?  or 
what type f material they are made of ?  The are from the estate of an 
SK so not much help there. 

Thanks in advance. 

-- 
Mike Stokes 
KK9V 


------------------------------ 

Message: 10 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 20:50:00 -0700 
From: Larry Loen <lwloen@gmail.com> 
To: K8RI <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net> 
Cc: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com> 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Going for it! 
Message-ID: 
        <CAJRedisSiR=01+fy9zmnq_fa2oNJgccDox4VNYV2RiD+JM4TAQ@mail.gmail.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 

You will almost certainly also have a well-levelled tower.  That's worth 
something, too. 

My contractor gave me a dead level base for my 72 footer, a fact I 
appreciate every day. 


Larry Wo0Z 

On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 2:12 PM, K8RI <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net> wrote: 

> I decided to bite the bullet and get a contractor for the tower.  I had 
> planned on doing a lot, but it's going to be some time before I get a lot 
> of use out of my left arm.  I did have a volunteer to dig the hole, but the 
> contractor will haul away the dirt, fix the ruts in the yard, give me a 
> quote on the rebar cage and get the concrete poured, as well as taking it 
> down at its present location and bringing it home. 
> 
> Yah, it will cost more, but I'll save nearly a $1000 by not having to pump 
> the concrete.  In the end the cost isn't much more and money saved was 
> enough to get my wife to agree to the trucks in the North yard. 
> 
> BTW I finally found the reason for the strokes.  It took wearing a monitor 
> for a few days, but the finally discovered that my heart goes into Afib 
> which can cause clots in the one chamber. When it goes back into rhythm, it 
> squirts out those clots which can migrate to the brain,  They 
> (Cardiologist, Neurologist, and Family Dr) figure they can prevent that. 
> 
>  Now if they'd discovered that a year ago, I would still be climbing 
> towers and flying airplanes.  Still there is a good chance they can prevent 
> another occurrence...I hope. Still, life carries no guarantees. 
> 
> 73, 
> 
> Roger (K8RI) 
> 
> ______________________________**_________________ 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________**_________________ 
> TowerTalk mailing list 
> TowerTalk@contesting.com 
> http://lists.contesting.com/**mailman/listinfo/towertalk<http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk>
>  
> 


------------------------------ 

Message: 11 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 20:59:52 -0700 
From: Grant Saviers <grants2@pacbell.net> 
To: mike stokes <mike9v@gmail.com> 
Cc: "Tower and HF antenna construction topics." 
        <towertalk@contesting.com> 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Mast material 
Message-ID: <51CD0A38.9060008@pacbell.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 

Tubing usually means the OD is measured in fractional inch increments, 
usually 1/16", eg 2", 2.25" etc. 
Pipe usually means conforming to the Inch Pipe Standards - the inch 
"size" e.g 2" is not 2" od or id.  One reason is the wall thickness 
varies with the "schedule" designation - most commonly schedule 40, but 
schedule 10, 20, 40, 80, 160 and others are available.  The od's for all 
schedule sizes of a given IPS pipe size are the same so they can be 
threaded with the same dies.  Look it up on wikipedia for the id and od 
numbers. 

So if you measure, you will know tubing vs pipe, but not the alloy or 
temper, which is what really matters for tubing.  Sch 40 pipe is 
generally a bad choice for masts (unless lightly loaded) because of the 
way it is made and the uncontrolled steel alloy used.  A file test can 
be done on steel tubing - if it's hard then you have something that is 
better than sch 40.  Drill pipe surplus is common in some locales.  It 
is hardened and a better grade steel.  If you can see a weld bead inside 
a tube then it is not the grade usually used for masts, which is smooth 
inside as it is DOM - Drawn Over Mandrel after welding the seam, and 
then heat treated. 

Without some instruments, it's almost impossible to determine what the 
aluminum alloy and temper is of an unmarked piece of Al. 

Definitely caveat emptor! 

Grant KZ1W 


On 6/27/2013 8:35 PM, mike stokes wrote: 
> I have a line one some used masts.  Both aluminum and steel.  Is there 
> an easy way to determine if they are actually tubing or pipe ?  or 
> what type f material they are made of ?  The are from the estate of an 
> SK so not much help there. 
> 
> Thanks in advance. 
> 



------------------------------ 

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------------------------------ 

End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 126, Issue 71 
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