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Re: [TowerTalk] Practical Grounding at reasonable cost.

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Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Practical Grounding at reasonable cost.
From: Patrick Greenlee <patrick_g@windstream.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 08:05:27 -0600
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
W O W, I didn't consider trying to auger a hole in a swamp! I guess you gotta do what you gotta do.

If you have a form in place you don't have to pump out any water or thin mud as the concrete is way heavier and will displace the water just fine. Think about boat launching ramps. They are poured under a serious depth of water. Large concrete floor pours are sometimes gently flooded over top with a couple inches of water to handle the heat generated by the chemical reaction of the concrete.

I like the comment/surmise regarding the crank up and climbing ability diminishing over time (or right away if unlucky.) I am researching crank-up/tilt-over towers and taking a good look at the NN4ZZ tilt over plate that lets you work on antennas at ground level. Costly but cheap compared to a few bucket truck or crane rentals.

Patrick   NJ5G



On 1/20/2015 5:35 PM, Mike Reublin NF4L wrote:
The guy who dug and poured the base for my tower used a length of steel culvert 
(4' dia x 10' len) as a form. He covered one end with a piece of plywood, stood 
it up in the well the hole had turned into and pushed it down to the bottom 
with the back hoe bucket. Ingenious. I thought.

73, Mike NF4L

On Jan 20, 2015, at 6:14 PM, Roger (K8RI) on TT <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net> 
wrote:

On 1/20/2015 10:34 AM, Patrick Greenlee wrote:

It can be done that way and is often easier, but construction sites often have their own 
way of doing things.  The soil around here is often very moist (read, sloppy.  The heavy 
concrete casting "sometimes" can force its way through the muck that rapidly 
fills the bottom portion of the hole.  so for those conditions its easier, or even the 
only way..  A form in the hole defeats the purpose of the concrete.

My front yard would be ideal for boring the hole and casting in place.  It'd never work 
in the back yard.  In the NW corner, holes are temporary.  They last long enough that the 
casting could displace 2 or even three feet of mud "if you hurry" but would be 
questionable as to what you'd get with a pour.

As an example:  I dug the holes for the guy anchors for my 100' 45G. with the 
intention of making and installing forms the next morning and doing the 3 pours 
in the afternoon.  The problem was that the next morning there were only two 
holes and a 10' wide depression, about a foot deep where the hole had been for 
the NW guy anchor.  It would have worked if we had, had the form ready and 
dropped it in the hole.  We might have had to pump out the water but the hole 
would have still been there.  We didn't even need a form for the South hole.

My tower base  http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/tower11.htm Undisturbed 
soil was easily done!
and the hole that needed to be dug again 
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/tower12.htm  It looks dry, but believe 
me, it was only dry on top.  It's almost like very wet Peat on the side toward 
the camera.

We had no choice except to use a form, but Id make the forms differently if 
doing it again. I'd set it up so as the pour filled the form the internal 
braces could easily be pulled out.  Getting those sides out was a real PITA.  I 
didn't worry about the braces.  With the forms back-filled before the pour and 
nature took car of at least half of that, the sides could have easily been 
pulled up.after the concrete set.

OTOH if doing it again, I'd spend the money and go with a large crank-up had I 
known I'd no longer be able to climb 7 years later..

The concrete in slop is still more effective than a single ground rod in slop.

73

Roger (K8RI)

On 1/20/2015 2:46 AM, Roger (K8RI) on TT wrote:
The ones I have seen  are formed by using a large cardboard tube as a form to 
cast the ground rod in concrete. (remove the form before planting the ground!) 
An auger digs a hole of the proper diameter to the proper depth and the encased 
rod is lowered into place. Not cheap, but very effective.

I don't get it.  Why not augur the hole and place the rebar in it (with proper clearance 
from dirt contact) and pour concrete into the hole?  Why complicate the process, adding 
the extra hassle and expense of the Sonatube.  The hole in the ground is a 
"wash", needed either way but no heavy equipment needed to pick up the formed 
rebar filled concrete cylinder and you don't buy and destroy a big sonatube (cylindrical 
cardboard form typically used to extend a pier hole above grade and similar.) Also it is 
much easier to pour concrete into a hole in the ground than to fill a big sonatube.

Patrick   NJ5G
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--

73

Roger (K8RI)


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