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Re: [TowerTalk] Laws of Physics Repealed!

To: "Roger (K8RI) on TT" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Laws of Physics Repealed!
From: "ve4xt@mymts.net" <ve4xt@mymts.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 20:32:21 -0500
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
The point raised earlier about choosing an antenna rated one band below is apt.

I had a Butternut HF6V. On 40, 20 and 10, it was decent. On 80, I may as well 
have put out a dummy load. Seriously. 

I now have a CC MA8040v. Theres no possible comparison to a four square or a 
dipole at height, or even to my 80m half-quad (think 80m inverted vee on 50 
foot tower, shorted at the usual inverted vee feedpoint and fed at one end 
against radials (and enclosed as a loop by a radial connecting both end) of my 
youth), but at least the people I can hear can usually hear me. 

That was often NOT the case with the Butternut termination resistor.  Moreover, 
I could hear far fewer stations. 

(I didn't mention 15 above because it was only OK. On 15, only 1/4 wl on 15 is 
active on the Butternut.)

On 40, I worked DX QRP with the B'nut. On 80, I was lucky to work ANYONE even 
QRO.

73, Kelly ve4xt


Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 6:23 PM, Roger (K8RI) on TT <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net> 
> wrote:
> 
> From my experience with the AV640, I am impressed with it on 40 meters (Its 
> lowest band) mounted at 25 and 32 feet with it matching the center 
> fed,sloping half wave on average for DX.  Due to its sensitivity to nearby 
> objects I wouldn't recommend it as a limited space antenna. OTOH if that's 
> the only space available, I'd use one.  Get it as high as possible, or 
> convenient.   Tripod roof top mount, short pole or tower.
> 
> I do have one caveat for both antennas.  There are a lot of mechanical 
> connections for jumpers, coils, traps and stubs subject to corrosion. I'm not 
> down wind from any nearby industry, but I still get a lot of degradation of 
> solder and Al to Al connections.  The solder turns grey and just crumbles 
> away. Al to Al held by screws often gets a buildup between the Al pieces.  I 
> have needed to redo a number of the coil and jumper connections on the AV640. 
>  I've had good luck with liquid Electrical tape. Around here the clear Krylon 
> doesn't last long.  YMMV
> 
> As a comparison, All of my C3i antennas (one 7L 6-meter, two 12L 147, and two 
> 11L 440s) have had all solder joints for the matching networks fail. What 
> solder was left would crumble to powder when rubbed between my thumb and fore 
> finger.  Those all had several coats of clear Krylon.  They are getting 
> liquid electrical tape.
> 
> 73
> 
> Roger (K8RI)
> 
> 
>> On 10/24/2015 6:48 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> On Sat,10/24/2015 6:49 AM, Daniel Danny Horvat wrote:
>>> There is no R6 antenna, there is a R-6000 antenna which I designed for
>>> Cushcraft followed by R8 antenna which was covered in K7LXC & N0AX report
>>> with high score.
>> 
>> Congrats on your work, Danny.  It's not easy getting good performance with 
>> small size!
>> 
>>> I was against implementing a 80m on R8 vertical back then (1998) due low
>>> efficiency and narrow bandwidth. MFJ has no problem to claim anything just
>>> to sell.
>> 
>> N0AX acknowledged this in his write-up of their tests. Only a fool would 
>> expect otherwise. :) His advice for all of these antennas as a class was to 
>> buy one rated for at least one band lower than you intend to operate with 
>> it.  That is, if you want to work 40, buy one that will work 80, and don't 
>> expect good performance on 80M from a 30 ft vertical.
>> 
>>> Verticals,  R5/R7 R6000 R8 and also clones AV620, AV640 are IMO better
>> 
>> My friend K9OR, a very good op on a very small lot in Evanston (near 
>> Chicago), has done very well with an AV640 on the roof of his small 
>> ranch-style home.
>> 
>>> than 43 foot verticals or even worse CHA250 and clone verticals.
>> 
>> I suggest that anyone considering an HF vertical or other antennas for 
>> limited space take a look at these pieces on my website.
>> 
>> http://k9yc.com/VerticalHeight.pdf
>> 
>> http://k9yc.com/43FtVertical.pdf
>> 
>> http://k9yc.com/VertOrHorizontal-Slides.pdf
>> 
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 73
> 
> Roger (K8RI)
> 
> 
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