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Re: [TowerTalk] questions on the use of a man-bucket and guy tensioning

To: rxdesign@ssvecnet.com, towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] questions on the use of a man-bucket and guy tensioning 5/16"...
From: TexasRF--- via TowerTalk <towertalk@contesting.com>
Reply-to: TexasRF@aol.com
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 09:43:06 -0400
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Gary, I should have realized that you have plenty of experience; my  
apologies for inferring otherwise!
 
If your guys are Phillystran using the rope style block may well be  
adequate for initial tension but if all steel, probably not.
 
At the risk of stating the obvious and to minimize crane time, you can  
start out with moderate guy tension and fine tune guy lengths and tension 
later.  The tower might have some lean and/or not perfectly straight but it 
will 
not  collapse while finalizing the guy tension adjustments.
 
In any event, you will be doing a lot of back and forth running. Hopefully  
you will have some help but it can be done alone. Personally I would 
install all  of the lower grips about 80% to allow easy repositioning as needed 
and then  complete grip installation as the last step. I can't imagine doing 
this without  a come-a-long tool.
 
This sounds like a really fun project and I know you are looking forward to 
 using the system.
 
73,
Gerald K5GW
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 10/12/2016 6:54:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
rxdesign@ssvecnet.com writes:

 
Hi Gerald,
 
Actually I’m use to using grips and have done many towers...  I’ve  done 
it all before – I’ve just not used 5/16” and don’t know if in situ I’ll  be 
able to estimate it accurately. I have 3 older grips that will function as  
the ‘connection point’ for pulling each guy. What I don’t have is three 
come  alongs. I have instead, what I used on the 1/4” guys, are three ... I’m 
not  sure what you’d call them... they’re rope and there is a block with a 
rotating  cog in it that locks on the rope when you pull it through adding 
tension in  the process... I don’t know if they’re able to handle any more 
than about 150#  of pull – so there is my question ... if I get to that 
amount of pull will the  turnbuckles have enough room to pull them from there 
to 
full 1100#? I’ve  Google searched to see if there is a chart of initial 
tension and how fast say  per inch of displacement of the turnbuckle the force 
goes up ... its obviously  a non-linear curve. 
 
and I’m having trouble getting people to just lift and stage the antennas  
let alone with any experience at the guys so its looking more like I’ll be  
running from one to the other (140’ out from the base and not a direct shot  
from one to the other). I’ll get my work out. 
 
thanks Gerald. 
 
Gary 
 
 
 

 
From: _TexasRF@aol.com_ (mailto:TexasRF@aol.com)  
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 9:15 PM
To: _rxdesign@ssvecnet.com_ (mailto:rxdesign@ssvecnet.com)  ; 
_towertalk@contesting.com_ (mailto:towertalk@contesting.com)  
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] questions on the use of a man-bucket and  guy 
tensioning 5/16"...


 

 
Gary, you are on a steep learning curve! Most installers use a  come-a-long 
to pull the initial guy tension and hold the guy in position while  the 
lower guy grip is installed.
 
If you install the grip about 75% it is relatively easy to remove and  
reposition the grip. Once installed 100% you likely will destroy the grip  
trying to remove it. Once you are sure of the proper position it is easy to  
complete the grip installation.
 
After the first few grips are installed you will get the hang of it and  
get the position correct on the first try.
 
If you have a man on each anchor it will go a lot quicker but you will  
need three of the come-a-longs for best speed. a half installed big grip makes  
a quick method of attaching the come-a-long to the guy. Some installers use 
a  "pork chop" (I forget the actual proper name) to grab the guy cable; 
perhaps  you already have three of these.
 
73,
Gerald K5GW
 
 
 
In a message dated 10/11/2016 7:18:06 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
rxdesign@ssvecnet.com writes:

Hello,

This is directed at those that have had direct  experience with the use of 
a crane and a man bucket. 
My antenna/tower  project, at least the major part of it (one of the two 
towers) is finally  getting close to being done. I’ve ordered the crane for 
the end of next week  ... so I can get a man bucket for an additional $150. 
There are 6 large  yagis to be installed – well 5 and a rotary dipole for 
80/75 which is also  BIG in that regard ... there’s currently 74’ of tower up 
on the K0XG  rotating base and 2 rings ... I’ve built another 60’ of tower 
with the  second ring on it ... that will go up first and the top section of 
guys  installed. 

then I have 14’ of tower that will already have mounted  on it (I hope) the 
rotary dipole at the top and a 5 element 50’ boom 20  mounted just above 
the leg of the tower (R55). That whole assembly will go  up as one and thus 2 
antennas will be finished once this is bolted in to  place. 

Then there are 4 yagis to go up along the height of the tower  from 124’ 
down to 45’. I had planned on just having a guy on the tower stuff  (no choice 
there of course) ... and then have him climb down the tower as we  go from 
the top down with the 4 remaining antennas 124’, 90’, 75’, 45’. This  
means I’ll have to lash up the antenna on the ground to the crane hook and  
then 
of course the crane will raise it up to him where he can hopefully bolt  it 
in place (2 plates on the boom already in place for the boom to tower  
mount). 

But the guy that is doing the climbing is saying the man  bucket will make 
putting the antennas up easier. Having never used one I’m  writing to get 
the comments of those that have used one. 

How is the  antenna ‘held’ to the man bucket? And whatever that is does 
that get in the  way of mounting the antenna when at the tower. I.e. you have 
the side rails  of the man bucket that would be ‘hitting’ the tower – will 
the antenna ‘move  in” to position and still be SAFELY held until bolted in 
place? 

Is  it really any faster? 

I assume it could be considered safer as the  guy would be in the man 
bucket and not climbing the tower but obviously one  expects whomever that is 
to 
be careful and always be strapped in when  climbing ... 

thoughts please? 

And on another note: the top  guys are 5/16” mixed with 11200# philly (50%) 
... how much tension do you  need to pull out of the ‘free’ cable before 
attaching it to the turnbuckle?  I’m worried about not pulling enough and 
having to redo the big grip ... on  the bottom set of guys (the bottom 2 sets 
are 1/4”) I managed to do just  that – I pulled too much and had to redo the 
big grip. Of course on the  5/16” the worry is more that I won’t pull 
enough and will run out of  turnbuckle adjustment space. Put another way: how 
fast does the tension go  up as one adjusts the turnbuckle? If the turnbuckle 
has 12” range – will  that pull up even a relatively loose guy to full 
tension of 1100# before  running out of adjustment room?  

Gary
K9RX
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