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Re: [TowerTalk] Legs of a 60' piece of tower being dragged while being l

To: StellarCAT <rxdesign@ssvecnet.com>, "TexasRF@aol.com" <TexasRF@aol.com>, "n0ost99@gmail.com" <n0ost99@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Legs of a 60' piece of tower being dragged while being lifted
From: Wayne Kline <w3ea@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 19:35:23 +0000
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
My Crain Experience with Radio Towers   is limited to two dismantles and three 
erections. As for the Crain it self.... I was a Crain Operator @ Bethlehem 
Steel for 4 years.

Was  Crain Checked up to 400 ton  bridge and multi Trolley  drum  Crain's.  A 
competent Crain operator  will IMO  know  how to RIG and PICK a load.

 The newer Mobil Crain's all operator's are  licensed for and above  the 
capacity of there unit.


    The Rig the  Rig has meters that tell the operator  not only  lift load 
weight but also side BOOM  weight .  To over come the side weight he would 
pivot and lift at the same time or in close unison.  the Base of your tower 
should NOT be drug along the  Earth ....


  Being a belt and suspenders type if that were a concern . I would get Four 
(4) U bolts   The bottom mating tube is 1 7/8 "  OD  so 2" U bolts and some 
flat bar stock to triangulate

reinforce that  bottom area......


Wayne  W3EA



From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> on behalf of StellarCAT 
<rxdesign@ssvecnet.com>
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 1:42 PM
To: TexasRF@aol.com; n0ost99@gmail.com
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Legs of a 60' piece of tower being dragged while being 
lifted

yes – I have a tendency, even though I’m an EE and quite experienced in 
mechanical systems, of being very anal retentive and it only seems to be 
getting worse as I age obsessing over things I know I shouldn’t be ... my 
apologies for that ... :>(

It is the ‘drop’ that I worried about. This is over very rough farm land so the 
path will have some significant up and down as it would move along...

but your analogy is a good one – thank you kindly sir.

g.



From: TexasRF@aol.com
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 1:33 PM
To: rxdesign@ssvecnet.com ; n0ost99@gmail.com
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Legs of a 60' piece of tower being dragged while being 
lifted

Just thinking here: With 400 pounds of dead weight resting on two legs, that is 
200 pounds on each leg. Can you stand on one leg of a 55G section without 
bending it? Yes, of course you can, so that seems safe.

The other consideration though is if the section was dropped and landed on the 
end of the leg, the shock could bend the leg(s). So, one would hope the crane 
operator does not let that happen.

At least your plywood pieces would act as a sort of shock absorber in case 
something happens. Perhaps a couple helpers with ropes tied to the end of the 
section could help control undesired motion.

73,
Gerald K5GW




In a message dated 10/14/2016 12:12:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
rxdesign@ssvecnet.com writes:
  Hi Gerald,

  That is my plan! I was thinking of a double thickness of 3/4” ply that is 
about 2’ wide. Strap it so that it reaches up about 2’ and hangs down by a foot 
or so... my main concern with posting this was ANY deformation in the leg. I 
know this stuff is REALLY stout – but wasn’t sure if any bending (permanent) 
might happen making it more difficult to get together. That stated the 
secondary effect of scraping off the galvanizing was and is in my mind as well.

  g.



  From: TexasRF@aol.com
  Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 11:05 AM
  To: rxdesign@ssvecnet.com ; n0ost99@gmail.com
  Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
  Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Legs of a 60' piece of tower being dragged while 
being lifted

  Gary, you might consider lashing a 4ft X 8ft sheet of plywood to the bottom 
tower section to protect the end of the tower while dragging it across the 
ground. Probably should be 3/4" thick to survive. Even a 2ft X 4ft might do the 
job.

  Or, strap a couple of 4" X 4" X 8ft posts to the tower and let the ends of 
the posts take the abuse. Kind of like what you have seen in old Western movies 
showing how Indians moved stuff around on two poles strapped to their horse.

  If you don't do something to protect the tower you can expect some of the 
galvanizing to be scrapped off. I have seen that happen just skidding sections 
around on a smooth concrete floor. With upwards of 400 pounds of weight on the 
lower end it is a given.

  I have not done any of these things so consider this as a concept only. As 
they say, your mileage may vary!

  73,
  Gerald K5GW




  In a message dated 10/14/2016 8:57:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time, 
rxdesign@ssvecnet.com writes:
    Indeed you are correct ... however space is the limitation. The 60’ piece 
was assembled with the top nearest the crane and going away from that spot – 
that distance it goes away is probably too far for the crane as it would need 
to boom out too much... with hindsight I might have tried to do it differently 
to accomplish this better but even thinking about that I don’t think it would 
have been possible with 6 antennas all assembled scattered around. The space 
where it would have had to go is where I had to stage the 50’ boom 5 el 20 in 
order to get it pre-assembled on to a 14’ tower section – it and the 80/75 
dipole are at the top and I had to use that space to get it ready (its now done 
and ready to go).

    g.



    From: Jeff Draughn
    Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:05 AM
    To: StellarCAT
    Cc: tower
    Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Legs of a 60' piece of tower being dragged while 
being lifted


    I may be all wet here, especially since I have never done this before, but 
it seems if you position the base of the section you want to lift near the 
tower you want to lift it onto then swing the boom of the crane to pick up the 
end, as you pick it up if you swing the boom back towards the base of the 
section you're lifting there would be very little dragging involved.

    Again without having real life experience at doing this I may be completely 
off-base but just a thought.

    Jeff


    On Friday, October 14, 2016, StellarCAT <rxdesign@ssvecnet.com> wrote:

      So Fred pointed this out ... I hadn’t considered it up until then... is 
it a problem to just allow the legs drag in the dirt while the 60’ piece with 
rotating ring attached (~850#) is lifted? Is there ANY chance the legs will 
deform making it impossible to mate it to the tower? I don’t have access to an 
end loader or any other piece of heavy eqmt ... I thought, and this might sound 
silly, a dolly ... those cheap(er) ones – seem to be rated at 600# ... if I 
could get enough guys to lift the end and put that under the end – then we 
could pull it along as the crane goes up.... although the ground is really 
rough so that is doubtful... it would probably get stuck and the legs drop off 
which would be far worse than just having them drag on the ground ... 
experiences anyone?

      Gary
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TowerTalk is for discussion of tower and HF antenna construction topics. TT 
members have lots of helpful information and are happy to share it.



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members have lots of helpful information and are happy to share it.



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