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Re: [TowerTalk] Half Wave?

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Half Wave?
From: jimlux <jimlux@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 15:44:52 -0800
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
On 1/17/19 3:03 PM, Bob Shohet, KQ2M wrote:
That’s a REALLY presumptuous response on your part Joe.  I have spent MONTHS of ACTUAL 
TIME time modeling antennas of all types over all types of terrain at multiple qth’s 
over the past 28 years with at least five different modeling programs and I guaranty that I 
have run far more antenna/terrain models of antennas than you have and far more than most of 
the people on this reflector.

I don’t live on flat ground and most of the people that I know don’t either; but even 
if they did have a flat qth, their patterns would still be affected by the topography around them as 
well as soil conductivity, which is why you should always model your ACTUAL antennas over ACTUAL 
terrain or else your model won’t be reasonably accurate and not likely to be particularly 
useful.


This is actually a very difficult modeling problem. NEC and it's ilk model the soil surface as a plane, with uniform soil properties, with an optional step or cliff.

Some other method of moments codes might allow a layered or non-uniform soil. That would get you your near field effects..

But the far field effects of uneven terrain are a bit more complex to model - HFTA assumes horizontal polarization - and that's not an unreasonable assumption for most dipoles and yagis, although once you throw in guy wires, towers, and uneven soil surface under the antenna, I'm not sure that the polarization purity is as good.

If there are significant scatterers in the "near far field" (say, within 100 wavelengths) that's a bit more tricky to model. Vertical trees probably not a big deal, but horizontal structural components, power lines, etc. are something to consider.

There's some literature on HF propagation through forests and other layered media (Brazil, for instance, has tall forests, with roads and clearings, and they use low VHF and HF links, so there's some research out there) but probably not at 7 MHz. One can probably approximate a forest as a set of fairly uniform layers using a bulk volume average of tree and air dielectric properties.

But then, I don't know of many "3D" modeling codes intended for general HF use - we've got some special purpose FDTD codes at JPL we used for modeling low microwave (2-4 GHz) propagation through soil, rubble, etc. - but those are hardly general use.

So, overall, modeling is good for comparisons and seeing if there's something that sticks out in a phenomenological way, but I'd be leery of claims for "better than 1dB" kind of accuracy in an absolute sense for HF in any sort of "real" environment with lumps and bumps.


If you want to compare "significant" differences in height for a simple antenna (dipole or Yagi), then NEC and HFTA do just fine, and are worth spending some serious time on.




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