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Re: [TowerTalk] Concrete

To: <towertalk@contesting.com>, "Mac" <libbysales@austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Concrete
From: "Bob Shohet, KQ2M" <kq2m@kq2m.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 15:26:33 -0400
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Mac,

Thank you for noticing my error.  It was not 20 sq. yds, it was 20 cubic yds.  
That’s what I paid for and what I received.  I actually used ~ 18.5 cubic yds 
for the two tower bases and six guy anchor holes – the “extra” was what was 
dumped in the depression at the edge of my driveway.

I don’t recall the size of the truck or if they had to make more than one trip, 
but t was a HUGE truck.

For perspective, because of the boulders and other debris in several of the 
holes, what would start out as a 3’ x 4’ x 4’ hole became more like 4’ x 5’ x 
6’ as a removed boulder or piece of construction debris (steel cables, 
sheetrock, broken piece of wood, barbed wire, etc.) would tear out a chunk of 
the dirt wall and require re-straightening by the backhoe and enlarging the 
hole in the process.

Bob,  KQ2M


From: Mac 
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 3:07 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Concrete

Humm ?   a 20 Sq yd concrete truck  ..  ??

that's a very big and very heavy truck , more to the point, they don't 
make emm that big ...

mac/mc  w5mc

On 8/26/2019 1:15 PM, Bob Shohet, KQ2M wrote:
> I used a different method which I will mention here just it case it may be 
> helpful for a TT reader.
>
> My qth is on irregular and jagged ledge – in some spots the ledge is at or 
> just below the surface (like an iceberg) in other spots, as little as 1’ 
> away, the dirt extends down for 4’ or more feet.  You can’t predict where it 
> is; you can only dig and see where it actually lies.
>
> My house sits in a small “valley” about 10 – 15’ below the top of the ledge 
> which starts less than 15’ from the ends of the house.  Coming from the 
> street down my driveway facing my house, you could almost imagine this as a 
> “U” with the middle part of the “U” flat and very elongated.
>
> Both of my towers are on the top of the ledge with no way to get there other 
> than to climb up at a very steep angle > 30 degrees.  This made it impossible 
> to get a large concrete truck, with 20’ sq yds of concrete, up to the tower 
> base.  And even if it made the first base, it could never get through the 
> dense woods and over the boulders to get to the second base 110’ feet away.  
> It was a challenge.
>
> I decided to hire an experienced person with a SMALL backhoe.  We proceeded 
> by having the large concrete truck drive to the base of the ledge, extend its 
> concrete pouring chute to the top of the ledge and then pick up that chute 
> and place it in the “scoop” of the small backhoe.  (We had discovered that 
> only a small backhoe could navigate the boulders and jagged ledge (although 
> not without tearing and blowing out two backhoe tires in the process!))  The 
> concrete truck then poured the concrete through the chute into the scoop of 
> the backhoe filling it ~ 1/2 way.  The chute was taken out and the backhoe 
> proceeded VERY slowly with the sloshing concrete and then poured it into 
> slowly and carefully into the tower base and guy anchor holes (already 
> strengthened with a cage or rebar and metal ties – previously made by N1MM 
> and myself).  At each hole another employee of the concrete company worked 
> with a concrete trowel, level and other tools to move and spread the concrete 
> and level it properly.  We repeated this process many times over a  2 1/2 
> hour period so that we could fill in both tower bases and six guy anchor 
> holes.
>
> It was a slow and painstaking process but it produced outstanding results.  
> No concrete was lost or spilled, the concrete filled all the holes and spread 
> and leveled beautifully and the highly complex and challenging terrain was 
> overcome.  We even had ~ 1 yard of concrete left over which I had them dump 
> into a depression in the driveway over an underground stream and which 
> successfully filled and stabilized a mini-sinkhole.   :-)
>
> This was in 1998 and cost ~ $1,050 cash for all the concrete, delivery, labor 
> and 1/2 hour of overtime.  I had calculated that doing it all myself with 
> renting a mixer, buying all the concrete mix, and other chemicals, would have 
> cost at least $400 and consumed at least two full days.  I’m not sure if it 
> would even have been possible to get the mixer through the woods and over the 
> boulders to the two tower bases, and guy anchor holes on the ledge in the 
> forest, but I do know that the labor would have been backbreaking – probably 
> almost as bad as the weeks of chainsawing that I had to do in order to clear 
> the dense forest for the tower locations.  I know that I would not have had 
> results as good as having the professionals do it. There has been no issue 
> with any of the concrete in the past 21 years.
>
> I would also add that the pros know the temperature range that the concrete 
> will set best at as well as the chemical composition of the concrete to give 
> the best “pour” and “set”.  I certainly would not have known that.  For that 
> information and knowledge alone to ensure the safety and the longevity of my 
> installations, it was worth every penny!
>
>
> 73
>
> Bob, KQ2M
>
>
> From: k7lxc--- via TowerTalk
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2019 1:11 PM
> To: towertalk@contesting.com ; xdavid@cis-broadband.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Concrete
>
>>   What size is your tower base?? In my opinion, mixing your own for a
> typical tower base is not a cost effective undertaking unless you have some 
> insurmountable access issue that prevents you from bringing in a mixer truck.
>      I agree. I've poured dozens of tower bases and every base plan I've ever 
> seen calls for 3kpsi concrete. The labor involved in buying, transporting, 
> mixing and pouring a base yourself doesn't usually pencil out compared to 
> having it delivered.
>
>      And if there is an access issue, hire a line pump to get the mud in the 
> hole. It'll pump up to 400 feet which should solve most problems.
>
> Cheers,Steve    K7LXCTOWER TECH -Professional tower services for amateur and 
> commercial
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