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[TowerTalk] 160 meter vertical on sloping ground

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] 160 meter vertical on sloping ground
From: Brian Beezley <k6sti@att.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 10:51:05 -0800
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
"Today, with DEMs available to generate the "tiles" for a full 3d model would be straightforward. That was one of the challenges when Breakall did his work."


Jim, the data I would need are measured 3D patterns to validate a 3D modeling program. I thought a drone might generate them, now I don't think so. There are many sources of error with a drone, some rather subtle. It might work in certain limited terrain, but not in general. There's no way one would work at my QTH.


"I'm not sure an ever increasing model fidelity is useful."


The issue with a radial-only model is that it can be entirely wrong, not just off a bit. Worse, it gives no indication that the result is unreliable. I think it's possible to use a radial-only model under certain circumstances, but you need to carefully vet the terrain. It definitely wouldn't work in most directions at my QTH. And while some directions look benign, I'm not sure they really are. It's tricky!


"My understanding is that HFTA is horizontal pol only (the reflection model is simpler)."


I don't know what HFTA does, but TA used specified ground constants with Fresnel reflection coefficients for both horizontal and vertical polarization at all reflection points. Vertical is no more difficult than horizontal. The equations are just a little different.

Incidentally, after months of making innumerable errors of all kinds, I think I finally have an accurate stratified ground model. Its application is rather limited, as is the available stratified ground data. But it provides some insight into the accuracy of surface ground probes:

http://ham-radio.com/k6sti/sg.htm

My writeup on the Hagn generic curves, which yield ground constants much more appropriate at HF than the figures antenna analysis programs suggest, is here:

http://ham-radio.com/k6sti/hfgc.htm

Brian

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