The TH6DXX had no such matching, at least on the one I had new and used for
20 years. Coax to BN86 and then directly to the insulated DE, Simple and
worked with no adjustments needed or possible.
Al N6TA
On Mon, May 19, 2025 at 9:16 AM <towertalk-request@contesting.com> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS (Bill Cotter)
> 2. Re: HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS (Tom Hellem)
> 3. Re: HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS (Tom Hellem)
> 4. Re: HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS (Gary Mayfield)
> 5. Re: HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS (Wes)
> 6. Re: HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS (Charles Tifft)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Bill Cotter <n4lg@qx.net>
> To: Gary Mayfield <gary_mayfield@hotmail.com>
> Cc: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 12:29:38 -0400
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> Gary,
>
> Attached is the manual for the TH-3 MK3 that shows the (grounded)
> beta-match dimensions, and the coax choke. I think the hairpin may
> be the problem (inductor vs transmission line). I think I would
> construct the beta match as designed. It should be easy to make up
> from available materials. And, thoroughly inspecting the traps for
> electrical integrity and correct location is a must.
>
> 73 es GL Bill N4LG
>
>
> At 09:19 AM 5/18/2025, Gary Mayfield wrote:
> >Thanks Jim,
> >
> > We did test with the long coax on the ground, and your
> > point is well taken about the balun vs a choke. We will take a
> > fine tooth comb to our hairpin recreation. I suspect that may be
> > a contributing factor.
> >
> >73,
> >Joe n0sd
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of
> >Jim Brown
> >Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2025 11:18 PM
> >To: towertalk@contesting.com
> >Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> >
> >On 5/17/2025 6:04 PM, Gary Mayfield wrote:
> > > We have also added a balun made from type 31 ferrite material.
> >
> >Hi Gary,
> >
> >Don't know anything about that antenna or have a solution for your
> >problem, BUT -- if that #31 is a lot of turns of transmission line
> >wound around a 2.4-in o.d. core, it is a Common Mode Choke, NOT a
> >"balun."
> >Antennas like yours are designed for specific matching networks or
> >feeding methods. A choke is used between the transmission line and
> >that matching system, whatever it is. These matching systems are
> >often called baluns.
> >
> >And with respect to your problem and on-the-ground testing -- did
> >you have a long length of coax on it when testing on the ground,
> >or just the analyzer connected with a few feet of coax? Their
> >matching networks often want to be driven by that coax.
> >
> >Also, study carefully as you can what the original matching system
> >was.
> >With gamma and hairpin matching, both the length and the diameter
> >of the
> >rod(s) matter.
> >
> >73, Jim K9YC
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >TowerTalk mailing list
> >TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >TowerTalk mailing list
> >TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tom Hellem <tom.hellem@gmail.com>
> To: "jim.thom jim.thom@telus.net" <jim.thom@telus.net>
> Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 12:25:29 -0600
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> The hairpin match , yes a very good question indeed.
> In fact, so good that Hygain didn’t choose to answer it in
> their instruction manual. They show all the parts for it, including
> what looks like an adjustable shorting bar, but absolutely no
> mention of it in the text. DX Engineering is still selling them, with
> the exact same manual. What a joke.
>
> Tom K0SN
>
> On Sun, May 18, 2025 at 8:35 AM jim.thom jim.thom@telus.net <
> jim.thom@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 13:19:54 +0000
> > From: Gary Mayfield <gary_mayfield@hotmail.com>
> > To: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com>
> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> >
> >
> >
> > > We did test with the long coax on the ground, and your point is
> > well taken about the >balun vs a choke. We will take a fine tooth comb to
> > our hairpin recreation. I suspect that >may be a contributing factor.
> >
> > >73,
> > >Joe n0sd
> >
> > How exactly does Hygain manage to get a hairpin to work on 3 bands ???
> > Typ when you raise the yagi from 8' to top of tower, the resonance
> points
> > will all shift up in freq.
> >
> > Jim VE7RF
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Tom Hellem <tom.hellem@gmail.com>
> To: Bill Cotter <n4lg@qx.net>
> Cc: Gary Mayfield <gary_mayfield@hotmail.com>, "towertalk@contesting.com"
> <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 18:42:26 -0600
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> There is no difference between a hairpin match and a beta match, its just 2
> different names for the same thing.
> My understanding of them is that it's a device for raising the feedpoint Z
> of a yagi, typically 25-35 ohms, up to 50 ohms. But when you build one, you
> can only adjust its length for one frequency band. I have never seen one
> used on a tribander, only on monoband antennas.
>
> Could this be another example of confusion on the part of the folks at MFJ?
> Maybe they got tribanders mixed up with monobanders and just stuck a beta
> match on the TH-3JR-S because they didn't know any better.
>
> All of the trapped tribanders that I have worked with, and it's been quite
> a few, were direct fed with no matching system. The losses in the traps
> probably provide the extra Z to arrive at 50 ohms.
>
> It might be worth just removing the beta match altogether and see what
> happens.
>
> K0SN
>
>
> On Sun, May 18, 2025 at 10:33 AM Bill Cotter <n4lg@qx.net> wrote:
>
> > Gary,
> >
> > Attached is the manual for the TH-3 MK3 that shows the (grounded)
> > beta-match dimensions, and the coax choke. I think the hairpin may
> > be the problem (inductor vs transmission line). I think I would
> > construct the beta match as designed. It should be easy to make up
> > from available materials. And, thoroughly inspecting the traps for
> > electrical integrity and correct location is a must.
> >
> > 73 es GL Bill N4LG
> >
> >
> > At 09:19 AM 5/18/2025, Gary Mayfield wrote:
> > >Thanks Jim,
> > >
> > > We did test with the long coax on the ground, and your
> > > point is well taken about the balun vs a choke. We will take a
> > > fine tooth comb to our hairpin recreation. I suspect that may be
> > > a contributing factor.
> > >
> > >73,
> > >Joe n0sd
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of
> > >Jim Brown
> > >Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2025 11:18 PM
> > >To: towertalk@contesting.com
> > >Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> > >
> > >On 5/17/2025 6:04 PM, Gary Mayfield wrote:
> > > > We have also added a balun made from type 31 ferrite material.
> > >
> > >Hi Gary,
> > >
> > >Don't know anything about that antenna or have a solution for your
> > >problem, BUT -- if that #31 is a lot of turns of transmission line
> > >wound around a 2.4-in o.d. core, it is a Common Mode Choke, NOT a
> > >"balun."
> > >Antennas like yours are designed for specific matching networks or
> > >feeding methods. A choke is used between the transmission line and
> > >that matching system, whatever it is. These matching systems are
> > >often called baluns.
> > >
> > >And with respect to your problem and on-the-ground testing -- did
> > >you have a long length of coax on it when testing on the ground,
> > >or just the analyzer connected with a few feet of coax? Their
> > >matching networks often want to be driven by that coax.
> > >
> > >Also, study carefully as you can what the original matching system
> > >was.
> > >With gamma and hairpin matching, both the length and the diameter
> > >of the
> > >rod(s) matter.
> > >
> > >73, Jim K9YC
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >TowerTalk mailing list
> > >TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > >http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >TowerTalk mailing list
> > >TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > >http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Gary Mayfield <gary_mayfield@hotmail.com>
> To: "'towertalk@contesting.com'" <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2025 00:46:43 +0000
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> We had a much better day today. We removed the hairpin, and the choke and
> fed the antenna with split coax and got the same results as before. --- Has
> to be a trap...
>
> The traps all measure as dead shorts at DC (expected), but while measuring
> one of the traps with an ohmmeter a sweep of the antenna shows dips (off
> frequency) in the SWR (not just flat bad).
>
> We took that trap apart and it looked great, but we did get two tiny drops
> of dirty water. It was damp, but not wet. We cleaned it and put it back
> together and presto - three nice dips, pretty much on frequency.
>
> We reconnected the hairpin and the in band SWR went from around 3 to 1 in
> each band to around 1.2 to 1 on each band (hey it really does help match
> the antenna). We added the choke and it didn't have any SWR impact, but we
> are quite pleased and Rich's new antenna is on the air. The lift can be
> returned in the morning. If you hear Rich ke0epy (originally wn0vzp) on the
> air - say howdy!
>
> Thanks to all the folks who provided input. This reflector is a great
> sounding board!
>
> 73,
> Joe n0sd
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of Gary
> Mayfield
> Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2025 8:04 PM
> To: 'towertalk@contesting.com' <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
>
> Hello - We had a frustrating afternoon today trying to put up a Hy-Gain
> TH-3JRS at the QTH of Rich, KE0EPY.
>
> The antenna is previously owned, and we replaced the broken aluminum
> matching wire (beta match) with one made of copper. We have also added a
> balun made from type 31 ferrite material. Other than that, the antenna
> seems to be all original. A few days ago, we tested the antenna on top of
> an 8-foot fiberglass ladder, and it had three nice SWR dips right where you
> would expect for 20, 15 and 10 meters. Today before taking the antenna up
> the tower, we checked it all again, by pointing it lifting it a couple feet
> and pointing it straight up. Again, we saw 3 nice dips where they were
> expected.
>
> Once we mounted it on the tower the SWR went very high and only showed one
> small dip just below 15 meters at 20.8 MHz. Thinking the coax had been
> damaged we took a small jumper up in the lift and connected directly to the
> balun but got the same results. Then we bypassed the balun - same results.
> We removed the beta match and connected straight to the driven element and
> got the same results. With the beta match removed the two sides of the
> driven element are not shorted to each other or the boom.
>
> We have the lift for another day. Any ideas/thought/suggestions will be
> greatly appreciated!!
>
> Thanks, and 73,
> Joe - n0sd
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Wes <wes_n7ws@triconet.org>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2025 06:21:13 -0700
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> The beta or hairpin match is an L-network with a shortened driven element
> providing the capacitance and the hairpin providing the inductance. It is
> not
> necessarily a single-band solution.
>
> IIRC, the TH-3, TH-3JR and the TH6DXX all used them.
>
> Wes N7WS
>
>
> On 5/18/2025 5:42 PM, Tom Hellem wrote:
> > There is no difference between a hairpin match and a beta match, its
> just 2
> > different names for the same thing.
> > My understanding of them is that it's a device for raising the
> feedpoint Z
> > of a yagi, typically 25-35 ohms, up to 50 ohms. But when you build one,
> you
> > can only adjust its length for one frequency band. I have never seen one
> > used on a tribander, only on monoband antennas.
> >
> > Could this be another example of confusion on the part of the folks at
> MFJ?
> > Maybe they got tribanders mixed up with monobanders and just stuck a beta
> > match on the TH-3JR-S because they didn't know any better.
> >
> > All of the trapped tribanders that I have worked with, and it's been
> quite
> > a few, were direct fed with no matching system. The losses in the traps
> > probably provide the extra Z to arrive at 50 ohms.
> >
> > It might be worth just removing the beta match altogether and see what
> > happens.
> >
> > K0SN
> >
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Charles Tifft <chuckw6rd@yahoo.com>
> To: Wes <wes_n7ws@triconet.org>
> Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 19 May 2025 06:29:37 -0700
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> Couple Wilson Tribanders too. SYS1 and SYS36 come to mind.
> W6RD
>
> > On May 19, 2025, at 6:21 AM, Wes <wes_n7ws@triconet.org> wrote:
> >
> > The beta or hairpin match is an L-network with a shortened driven
> element providing the capacitance and the hairpin providing the
> inductance. It is not necessarily a single-band solution.
> >
> > IIRC, the TH-3, TH-3JR and the TH6DXX all used them.
> >
> > Wes N7WS
> >
> >
> > On 5/18/2025 5:42 PM, Tom Hellem wrote:
> >> There is no difference between a hairpin match and a beta match, its
> just 2
> >> different names for the same thing.
> >> My understanding of them is that it's a device for raising the
> feedpoint Z
> >> of a yagi, typically 25-35 ohms, up to 50 ohms. But when you build one,
> you
> >> can only adjust its length for one frequency band. I have never seen one
> >> used on a tribander, only on monoband antennas.
> >>
> >> Could this be another example of confusion on the part of the folks at
> MFJ?
> >> Maybe they got tribanders mixed up with monobanders and just stuck a
> beta
> >> match on the TH-3JR-S because they didn't know any better.
> >>
> >> All of the trapped tribanders that I have worked with, and it's been
> quite
> >> a few, were direct fed with no matching system. The losses in the traps
> >> probably provide the extra Z to arrive at 50 ohms.
> >>
> >> It might be worth just removing the beta match altogether and see what
> >> happens.
> >>
> >> K0SN
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
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