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Re: [TowerTalk] Adding 15 meters to a 204BA

To: leeson@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Adding 15 meters to a 204BA
From: Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2025 14:37:35 -0500
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Dave,  

Thanks.

Was I correct in my assumptions outlined in second paragraph of my last message 
regarding lengths to use for the larger equivalent diameter?

Stan

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 5, 2025, at 2:14 PM, Leeson <leeson@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Here's the model from the 1990s that I've used in YO for the 204BA, with the 
> tip dimensions for CW:
> 
> Hy-Gain 204BA
> 14.000 14.175 14.350 MHz
> 4 elements, inches
> 
>            2.1448    1.2500    1.1250    0.8750    0.6250    0.4375
>  0.0000    3.1250   41.8750   46.0000   50.5000   24.0000   53.0000
> 122.8750    0.0000   30.5000   46.0000   50.5000   24.0000   53.0000
> 211.6250    3.1250   18.3750   46.0000   50.5000   24.0000   53.0000
> 307.2500    3.1250   14.1250   46.0000   50.5000   24.0000   53.0000
> 
> Match: 2 0.2500 8.0000 18.0000 4.0000 26.5 50.0
> Bracket: 1 3.2500 7.2500 2.0000 0.2500
> 
> I used a modified set of tip dimensions that improved the SWR bandwidth over 
> the whole band without much gain or F/B penalty:
> 
>         Phone    CW      Mod.
> Refl      50"     53"     53"
> Driven    50"     53"     50.75"
> Dir 1     51"     53"     49.5"
> Dir 2     51"     53"     49.5"
> 
> Other dimensions including Beta match are as standard per the manual. The 
> gain, F/B and SWR comparison YO calculation is as follows:
> 
>           MHz      14.0     14.175   14.35
> 204BA      Gain      8.18     8.33     8.49
>           F/B      23.6     22.3     16.8
>           SWR       1.3      1.3      2.2
> 
> 204BA Mod  Gain      7.98     8.08     8.20
>           F/B      19.7     26.0     21.0
>           SWR       1.5      1.0      1.5
> 
> As part of design efforts for my home setup, our former HC8 M/M station and 
> others, I've played around with many modifications of the basic 204BA 
> elements, including direct feed with closer first director for wide SWR 
> bandwidth. For construction convenience, I've tried to change only the first 
> director location, leaving the rest of the elements in the original 
> positions. Modern modeling software can produce useful designs.
> 
> One last thing I've looked into more recently is the tip adjustment necessary 
> to account for the effect of wire lead length from a balun to the driven 
> element. In the case of direct feed, I've found that the tip dimension as 
> calculated needs to be reduced by a factor of 1.5-1.7x the lead length, 
> rather than the 1:1 I had expected. I use a wider frequency range to help 
> with the broadbanding calculations.
> 
> Here's an example of that process, using 1/2" tips:
> 
> Hy-Gain 204BA 50 Ohm
> 13.950 14.175 14.400 MHz
> 4 elements, inches
> 
>          0.0510  2.1450  1.2500   1.1250   0.8750   0.6250   0.5000
>  0.0000  0.0000  3.1250  41.8750  46.0000  50.5000  21.5000  56.5000
> 122.8750  5.0000  0.0000  30.5000  46.0000  50.5000  21.5000  58.5000
> 162.5000  0.0000  3.1250  24.8750  46.0000  50.5000  21.5000  58.0000
> 307.2500  0.0000  3.1250  18.3750  46.0000  50.5000  21.5000  54.1250
> 
> Match: 1 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 26.5 50.0
> Bracket: 1 3.2500 7.2500 2.0000 0.2500
> 
>           MHz      14.0     14.175   14.35
> 204BA 50   Gain      8.15     8.29     8.41
>           F/B      25.5     21.0     17.5
>           SWR       1.04     1.03     1.03
> 
> The Hy-Gain 204BA seems still to be the standard of comparison in short 
> monobanders for 20m. Some folks have suggested extending the boom, but making 
> the 204BA longer runs you into the weird behavior of antennas that are near 
> 1/2 wave boom length (you either get gain or F/B, but not both). This happens 
> for 20m boom lengths from 30-36 feet. It takes a 40' boom to begin to get 
> clear of the near-half-wave boom area, and 42' to 45' to have real design 
> freedom.
> 
> For my location here on a ridge, our high winds dictate strengthening 
> elements per the techniques outlined in my Yagi book. One caution is not to 
> allow any holes near the inner end of reinforcing tubes, as this can be a 
> site of eventual fatigue failures. Caribbean experience supports the HyGain 
> technique of ropes inside element tips.
> 
> Hope this is useful. As my grandkids always note, "Grampa, TMI!"
> 
> Dave, W6NL/HC8L
> 
> 
>> On 11/5/25 5:19 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
>> Thanks, Dave!  I had forgotten all about the great book you wrote 30+
>> years ago.  Also, my wife and I are watching a series on TV that we
>> watched 10 years ago and it's almost like we had never watched
>> it.😀
>> So in the chart it shows the equivalent diameter as 2.14" and the
>> length as 2.925".  I am assuming from what I read that the half
>> length of the clam shell clamp that extends out from the edge of the
>> boom is 2-5/8" with an overall length of 7.25" (5.25" + 2") and that
>> the length of 2.925 is derived by adding .3" for half the electrical
>> length of the boom diameter?  Hope that makes sense and is correct?
>> Thank you so much for reminding me of the book.  A lot of it is way
>> over my head but it's full of practical information as well.
>> 73...Stan, K5GO/ZF9CW
>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 12:52 AM Leeson <leeson@earthlink.net 
>> <mailto:leeson@earthlink.net>> wrote:
>> Modeling of the HyGain element clamp is derived in Chapter 9 of my
>> 1992 book, "Physical Design of Yagi Antennas," 
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hmhkeofz0igrg1e/Physical%20Design%20Of%20Yagi%20Antennas%20D%20B%20Leeson%20V2.pdf?dl=0
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/hmhkeofz0igrg1e/Physical%20Design%20Of%20Yagi%20Antennas%20D%20B%20Leeson%20V2.pdf?dl=0>
>> 
>> From page 9.3, the equivalent diameter of the HG204BA clamp is 2.14 inches. 
>> This clamp model is used in K6STI's YO and other Yagi
>> software.
>> Dave, W6NL/HC8L

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