Yes, every week the rules could be changed via a big spinning wheel ran by a
toothless cars salesman
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: Harlen Phelan <kf7cq@msn.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 23:55:02
To: <k3uhf@hotmail.com>; <k7cw@yahoo.com>; <w7cs@theriver.com>;
<FFMA@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <k5qe@sabinenet.com>; <vhfcontesting@contesting.com>;
<vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu>; <PNWVHFS@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [PNWVHFS] Re: [VHF] Re: [FFMA] FFMA, DL88, and K5QE...
Frank,
You left out a couple of steps:
1. A high voltage polygraph test using dog collars.
2. A minimum of one hour of water boarding.
These two event would have to be witnessed by a ten member committee consisting
of at least one Christian, one Jew, one Muslim, Rush Limbaugh, Bevis, Butthead,
one person professing alternate sexual orientation, one blind person, one deaf
person, and one person with at least one extremity missing. All decisions of
the committee would have to be unanimous.
LeRoy KF7CQ
----- Original Message -----
From: frank bechdoldt
To: Paul Kiesel ; w7cs@theriver.com ; FFMA@yahoogroups.com
Cc: k5qe@sabinenet.com ; vhfcontesting@contesting.com ;
vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu ; PNWVHFS@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 2:03
PM
Subject: Re: [PNWVHFS] Re: [VHF] Re:
[FFMA] FFMA, DL88, and K5QE...
I fail to see why the standards should be higher for those who
follow fred fish than fred fish himself. I mean really! if you have to
acquire over-documentation of several rare grids from the other
party, you are achieving a much higher standard and achievement than fred
fish
himself. Any party who has to submit video or pictured confirmation from
another party should have the next award named after him. And the winner will
be the one with the most documentation from the people they work. Of
course we will have to gauge the documentation via a committee where a
notorized letter from a state policeman or surveyor crew will be the gold
standard. Permits to operate in rare grids will be available for
purchase from the Arrl once fees are paid, operation site surveyed and markeÐ
by authorities having jurisdiction and the operation is placed on said mark
with real time gps sent back to the arrl via the internet . Of course
this will not be public information as operating practices need to remain
secret, not to mention it could be construed as spotting. Operation logs are
also not public information as it may reveal the secret techniques of radio
operation not suitable for the general public. (Pack roving standard circa
2005).I'm done with the Arrl.Sent via BlackBerry by
AT&T-----Original Message-----From: Paul Kiesel
<k7cw@yahoo.com>Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012
20:22:28 To: <w7cs@theriver.com>; <FFMA@yahoogroups.com>Cc:
<k5qe@sabinenet.com>; <vhfcontesting@contesting.com>;
<vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu>; <PNWVHFS@googlegroups.com>Subject:
[PNWVHFS] Re: [VHF] Re: [FFMA] FFMA, DL88, and
K5QE...Chuck,Of course, Fred Fish is no longer with us and
can't defend himself against your claims. I believe the majority of VHFers
who
were around when Fred was with us would agree that he was a good guy and
worthy of having an award named after him.Confirming a "false
operation" is different from being suspicious about it. Not knowing how it
could have happened is not the same as demonstrating that it
didn't.There are many places where official borders do not
correspond exactly with what everyday maps seem to indicate. For instance,
the
border between British Columbia and Washington varies back and forth across
the CN88/CN89 line, not exactly on the 49th Parallel as many believe. That's
one reason why GPS receivers are necessary in areas near grid
boundaries.You may be incorrect about dishonesty about early
digital EME contacts. For those who haven't tried it, it would be hard to be
a
judge, I think.73,Paul,
K7CW
---------------- From: Chuck Smallhouse
<w7cs@theriver.com> To: Paul
Kiesel <k7cw@yahoo.com>; "FFMA@yahoogroups.com"
<FFMA@yahoogroups.com> Cc:
Marshall Williams <k5qe@sabinenet.com>; VHF Contesting
<vhfcontesting@contesting.com>;
VHF Reflector <vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu>; Pacific NW
VHF Society <PNWVHFS@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [VHF]
Re: [FFMA] FFMA, DL88, and K5QE... These suspicions
reignith, if for no other reason than that many of the activities of the
award's namesake were often questionable. He also was a hypocritical and
vocal doubter. I was harassed by him over a contact (2M), in the '60s, he
claimed was impossible, because he couldn't hear the other station, I was
in N. CA and he was in NM. I had a witness.There have been some
post award disqualifications by the ARRL, when their suspicions of false
operations have been confirmed.I can recall of a proposed MS
operations, from the AZ, NM, CO & UT Four Corners area, in the late
'50s, when Ed Tilton (50 MHz and Up editor) cautioned the operators, to
make certain that the station (or at least the antenna) physically be
moved into each state to qualify as a separate State.Late model
GPSs have improved (although not 100%) the accuracy of geographical points
of interest, compared to early physical surveys. Witness the current, and
not resolved location, of the exact location of the Four Corners junction
of the states.Unfortunately, not many amateur operators are totally
"squeaky" clean, as evidenced by some of the early digital EME contacts,
and the (in my eyes & definition) of HF contest and DXpedition
contacts. They are now bringing these techniques to 6 M.This is
life ! 73,Chuck, W7CSAt 11:58 PM 2/28/2012, Paul Keel
wrote:>Hey, John ->>I wish you would submit for FFMA.
It's one cool award and well>worth displaying on your wall in a
prominent place.>>To All,>>I hate to
see>all this bitterness come up. It was destined to happen, I
suppose.>>I still>believe in trusting hams to be honest.
Why can't it be that we always assume>that what someone states is the
truth? Well, I guess we can't, so we set up>evidence rules designed to
make everyone honest. So, then someone questions>whether the evidence
is falsified. Shouldn't we assume that the evidence>hasn't been
falsified? If so, shouldn't that be the end of it? B I believe
it>should.>>Deep down, I hate this thing about having to
provide a photo of a GPS>readout to prove I was somewhere. That and
photos showing the rig and>surrounding area. Some guys will be
dishonest, but one wonders why we should>assume that dishonesty will
prevail if we don't adopt rules to prevent it.>>I>don't
think I am naive to think that expeditioners give factual
information>about their locations and that they will do what is
required to get to a>difficult place. I think, for them, it's important
to be accurate in this>respect because they understand the value of
their contribution, just as a>competitor in a contest appreciates the
value of winning without cheating.>73,>Paul,
K7CW>>>________________________________> From:
W9RPM><john@w9rpm.com <mailto:john@w9rpm.com> >>To:
FFMA@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FFMA@yahoogroups.com>
>Cc: Marshall Williams><k5qe@sabinenet.com
<mailto:k5qe@sabinenet.com> >; VHF
Contesting <vhfcontesting@contesting.com
<mailto:vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
>; VHF>Reflector <vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu
<mailto:vhf@w6yx.stanford.edu> >;
Pacific NW VHF Society><PNWVHFS@googlegroups.com
<mailto:PNWVHFS@googlegroups.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 10:01
PM>Subject:>Re: [FFMA] FFMA, DL88, and
K5QE...>>>B>Marshall, that is to bad.I know
some>hams in my area were anxious to try for the rare Grid, but I
understand where>you are coming from. Some of the reasons you state in
your email are the same>ones that until now I have kept to myself. I
had my share of rude emails from>some Hams regarding FFMA.Some
questioning how I could work 488 grids just>since 1997. I am home all
the time because of my health, so I was on the air I>said. They made me
fell bad for accomplishing what I had done. Questioning how>I worked
this and that grid, and in one case saying that no way could I
have>worked CN73 on JT6M with W7CE. They said it was to great of a
distance etc....>And I got some of the same with EN85 on SSB. I even
let others know that I had>worked a guy there, and he was anxious to
try and work others.>>Had a hard>time getting a card from
FN67, but finally did, and that> was questioned>also. I even
waited for the other group to go there a> few years ago,
and>they had an accident on the way, so that was out.>>At
that time, I decided>that I was not going to apply for FFMA at>
that time. I did feel that ones>who had worked at it for years>
should get it. Days before the Internet and>DX clusters and the
new> WSJT modes of which I used for skeds on the last>toughest
ones.>>Maybe someday I will apply, or maybe not. I enjoy this
hobby,>and> have made many good friends. I have my cards all
sorted and anyone>can see them. I know I did it, and thats the bottom
line.>>I do support FFMA,>and anyone who accomplishes it,
should be proud.> As far as anyone from the>ARRL or any FFMA
officials; none of them> have been nothing but nice to me,>so I
have nothing but good things> to say on that side of
it.>>73 John>W9RPM>>On 2/28/2012 9:28 PM,
Marshall Williams wrote:>B> >Hello everyone>associated
with FFMA....After I finally retired from business, I went back>into
Ham Radio with a vengeance.B I built up a respectable home station
and>then started working on the contest station.B I have won first
place(at least>once) in most of the premier VHF contests around.B I
have won the CQ WW VHF>contest 3 out of the last 4 runnings.B I have 2M
WAS and hope to finish 6M>WAS(someday).B I have 107 DXCC confirmed on
2M, but I have never bothered to>do the ARRL's silly paperwork.B SO, I
have done about all there is to do in>the VHF contesting world.B When
the FFMA first came along, I decided to put>some serious effort into
that, even though it was clear that I would never win>the award
myself.B I decided to work on activating rare grids in my general>area,
trying to help others that needed these rare grids.B Because I
am>retired and have the money for these DXpeditions, we have put on 3
very well>done efforts and had 3 more> planned in the
wings.B> >> >I have been part of every one of the K5N
Grid>Activation> Group's efforts in EL58, DL79, DL89, and
finally>the> DL99/DM90 Winter DXpedition.B I have already spent
over>$1500 on preparations for the 2012 attack on>
DL88--currently>the rarest grid in the FFMA>
constellation.B> >> >I have tried>to be sure that
the FFMA was actually a quality award.B I have done this by>twice
protesting operations or practices that seemed "fishy" to me.B
The>first one turned out to be a false alarm, although the
circumstances were a>bit off to be sure.B The FFMA "officials" have
refused to offer up any>comments or any "proof" of the second one.B I
don't understand what they are>doing....one would think that the
integrity of their award would be of>paramount importance.B I contacted
Russ-KB8U who activated CN79, probably the>rarest grid of all time, and
asked him what "proof" was required that he was>actually in that grid.B
His reply:B NOTHING.B> >> >However, at this time,
my>relations with the FFMA "officials" are severely strained--see the
emails>below.B After my reply to their emails, I have heard nothing
from them for 4>days.B No "Go to Hell-Strong Letter Follows", no
"proof" that the expedition>to the grid corner in question was actually
at that location, no NOTHING.B> >> >Hence, with a lot of
regret, I am withdrawing all my> efforts,>equipment, and money
from the FFMA> arena.....this unless some>accommodation can be
found.B> I will leave the door open on>that....I really
don't> want to hurt the decent folks that are>trying to win
a> difficult award AND I enjoy the DXpeditions as>hard
and> as costly as they are.B However, I will not expend>money,
time, and effort in support of an> organization/program>that
impunes my integrity(directly)> and calls me
a>liar(indirectly).B> >> >Therefore, I have ceased
my efforts on the DL88 grid>activation trip.B I will instruct Bill-N5YA
to cease> building>the special rig necessary for DL88.B I
will> cease my work on>the Special Use Permit that is
required> for an expedition to>the Big Bend National Park.B I
most> certainly will not>purchase the $2500 worth of
solar> panels and the charge>controller necessary for
that> operation(because the Park>Rangers will not let us
have> a generator in DL88).B I suppose>the $1500 already
spent> is just down the drain....> >> >It
would>be nice if a dialogue could be opened with the>
FFMA>"officials", so that this issue can be resolved.B> However,
as>I said, they have chosen to ignore me.B So> be it....I
suggest>that YOU contact them and let them> know how you feel
about all>this.B After a suitable> time, I will take all this up
with my>Director and> Vice-Director.B I suggest that you do
the>same.B Maybe> like our wonderful congressmen, if they catch
a>little> heat from their constituents, they might just
pay>attention......Don't hold your breath, I certainly am>
not.....> >> >Sorry to all that were planning to bag DL88
this summer,>but that is the way things are right now.B Maybe
this> can be>salvaged--I am open to suggestions.B IF you
wish> to contact>me, please call or do it OFF the>
reflectors....> >> >73 Marshall>K5QE>
>> >THE RELEVANT EMAILS> >> >Recently, I
received an email from one of the>FFMA> "Founding Fathers".B It
is reproduced below.B I>returned> the following reply, which I
sent to two of the>Founding> Fathers.> >>
>Hello....It is extremely hard for me to>know how to> reply
to this email and the thoughts therein.B I>am so> angry, that I
just cannot really figure out what to>say.....> >>
>A BIT OF HISTORY:B> >In 2009, our entire group(the K5N
Grid>Activation Group)> complained about a contact claim made by
a>Grand Wizard> of the ARRL that he had worked EL58.B Since
we>had just> been there, we all knew that we had not worked
him.B>Said Wizard even sent us a card trying to get us to QSL>
a>contact that had never taken place.B Somehow, I was>
"elected">to write in about all this.B It turned out> that he
had a>valid contact with Uri, the tanker> captain, that often
steamed>through that grid on the way> to the Port of New
Orleans.B OK,>fine.> >> >In 2010, I complained
about an expedition that claimed>to have operated from a grid corner
just SE of Marfa,> TX.B>Actually, it was not a DXpedition at
all, just a> single guy>running around in his vehicle with 100W
and a> loop.B I>actually went to that spot and it was clear
to> me that it was>extremely unlikely that he operated
from> the exact grid>corner.B He could have been close,
but> not at the actual grid>corner spot.B I spent 2 days on
a> reconnaissance of that>spot, so I know it well.B
After> some time, I was told that>nothing was going to
be> done.B No proof was offered that his>claim was
valid.B> Why all the secrecy??B Let's see his>"proof".B Since
I> have been to the spot, I will know>immediately if the>
pictures are faked or not.B If such>"proof" is not> forthcoming,
then it will be clear to me that>the entire> FFMA setup is a
charade.B> >> >In 2009, I>participated in the first
K5N> DXpedition....to EL58.B Seven>amateurs went to EL58
and> operated for parts of 3 days.B We>made lots of
contacts> and busted out butts, but I don't think>that there
was> anyone that said, "Well, you weren't
really>there".B> >> >In 2010, we tried for DL88,
but the roads were washed>out and we had to operate from DL89 and then
later from>DL79.B Again, we worked some folks and had some fun,
but> no>one said, "You were not really there".B>
>> >In 2011, we did the great Winter>DXpedition to
the> DL99-DM90 grid line.B We went with 4 very>well
known> operators and had 3 local operators that
assisted>us.B> One of those was John-W0UN, who is certainly very
well>known.B Yet the response that I got was that the League>
was>possibly not going to credit that operation.B I
was>furious.B Every part of our operation was transparent> and
it>involved no less than 7 amateur radio operators,> most of
whom>where very well known, to say the least.B> Then to say that
we>were lying about where we were> located and that no credit
was>going to be given was> just too much.B I washed my
hands>completely of that and> told Bill-N5YA to take care of
it.B>Does the ARRL think> that all those operators engaged in
some>kind of a> conspiracy to lie about our location??B What
would>be> the point??B We got NOTHING for our efforts....only
the>guys that worked us got something.B> >> >Then
Sean-KX9X "warned" me that I>had better have> excellent proof
for any expedition to DL88.B>Who does he> think that I am, Don
Miller??B Did he think that>I was> going to LIE about that
too??B Every expedition that I>have made has been completely above
board involving> multiple>well known ops.B None have been a
single> operator sneaking>into and out of rare grids
without> permission of the land>owners.B What is more likely,
a> group of 4-7 well known>amateurs conspiring to lie
about> their location or a single>guy who has no witnesses
at> all??> >> >As far as me purchasing>a
bunch more consumer electronic> junk to "prove" that I was
in>DL88(or where ever), that> is not going to happen.B I do
have>a cell phone, but> 99.9% of the time it sits in a bucket in
the>china> cabinet.B If it does anything other than ring when I
am>out of the house, I will shoot it.B I don't own a
video>camera.B I prefer to spend my money on Amateur Radio>
gear.B>Speaking of money, I have spent about $17,000 on>
the>DXpeditions that I have made so far.B It will> probably
cost>between $5,000 and $6,000 for our trip to> DL88.....all
this so>that I can LIE about my location.B> >> >My
initial inclination is to just>widely publish a> notice that I
am withdrawing from the FFMA>world AND to> publish a pointed
explanation.B If the ARRL>Grand> Poobah's believe that I would
spend thousands and>thousands of dollars and many days of hard work
just so> that I>could lie about my location, they need>
professional help.B>Let someone else do all the hard> work and
spend all the>money.B> >> >73 Marshall K5QE>
>Phone is 409-787-3830 if you wish to talk....> >>
>> >On 2/24/2012 10:14 PM, Founding Father 1 wrote:>
>Hi all,> >B> >Just>wanted to once again give
everybody the heads-up on this: ARRLbs bproofb>expectations regarding
FFMA portable grid activation claims went through a bit>of an upward
evolution last summer, ESPECIALLY (but not only) where activation>from
a 2-grid boundary, a 4-grid confluence, or a single
rare,>difficult-to-get-to grid is claimed.> >B>
>Anybody planning to activate rare>grids this spring/summer needs to
collect plenty of relevant evidence,>especially video.> >Sean
is real keen on video as part of a proof-of-location>package, and he
especially likes to see video of the operator operating and>actually
making a QSO. He also likes to see pictures of your setup and
your>surroundings, and of course the obligatory GPS shot showing
latitude and>longitude. Oh, and donbt forget a date/time stamp of some
kind. If it>isnbt an option to automatically embed it in a corner of
the video display,>pan away from the GPS screen to the laptop screen
and zoom in on the OS>date/time display. In Windows 7 itbs in the
service tray in the lower>right-hand corner.> >B>
>If your cell phone or pad computer is so down-rev>that it doesnbt
take decent-resolution video, you might want to think about>upgrading
before heading out into the boonies! My wife and I talked Santa
into>bringing us a beautiful new white 32 GB iPad2 for Xmas this past
year. That>would be perfect! Or maybe borrow or buy an inexpensive
stand-alone camcorder.>I just jumped over to the Best Buy website to
see what they had on sale, and>found a little Kodak PlayTouch 1080p HD
camcorder on sale right now for>$89.99. Itbs probably not going to do
everything you want for that price,>but man, thatbs cheap! Of course,
you can also use a USB outboard webcam>(like the Microsoft LifeCam
HD-5001, about $50, or Logitech HD C615, about>$80, in conjunction with
your laptop.> >B> >And read through those rules
again!>(www.arrl.org/ffma) Direct any questions to
Sean at ARRL. (kx9x@arrl.org <mailto:kx9x@arrl.org> )>
>B> >Looking forward to the rox getting better as spring
approaches and those>first Es season openings in April/May. See many of
you on the air soon!> >B> >END OF EMAIL FROM FOUNDING
FATHER 1...> >> >MY COMMENTS HERE:B ALL of
the>things mentioned above can> be faked quite easily.B
The>date/time on a computer can> be set to anything that
you>wish.B The time in a video> camera can also be changed to
any>date/time you want.B> These things prove nothing.B
Anyone>with PhotoShop can> take a picture of a GPS and change
the grid>display to> any grid that they want.B This is all
very>simple.B> Although I cannot do it myself, I have been
assured>that> altering movies is pretty easy these days too.B
Getting>4-7 mostly very well known VHFers to lie about what
grid> they>are in is NOT easy.B I would suggest that the>
"proof" that>ARRL is looking for needs a bit of>
consideration.> >> >We>provided several different
GPS shots to Sean for our>Rocksprings, TX grid line expedition.B There
were 3> different>GPS instruments and they all said that>
Latitude was 30B0 0'>0.00" and Longitude was 100B0 12'.B> That
means right on the>DL99-DM90 grid line.B There were> many other
pictures>too....most are published on the> Grid Bandits
DXpedition web>pages.B Apparently, only> when Bill-K5YG sent
Sean a bunch of>movies, did we hear> back that our operation was
going to be>"certified".B I> do not intend to have to mount a
small>Hollywood> production just to "prove" that I was in the
grid>that I> say I am in.B I don't own a movie camera and I
don't>intend to buy one.B Bill is a great videographer and>
enjoys>that kind of stuff....I don't.B> >>
>> >> >>>-->EMAIL: john@w9rpm.com
<mailto:john@w9rpm.com>
WEBPAGE:>http://www.w9rpm.com/ Wisconsin VHF/UHF County Hunters:
http://www.wivuch.com/>DX and CONTEST
CLUB: http://www.w9idx.com/ La Crosse
Hams:>http://www.lacrossehams.org/ AOL IM: W9RPM>YAHOO:
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