Nice post.
Re the Rover situation. At this point I am going continue to work with the
current WSJT-x system, but in my view / opinion it would be nice if:
1) All messages to and from Rovers included both calls.
2) All rover calls were sent with "/R"
I'd suggest any petitions re rover functionality at least propose this as an
end state if possible. That being said I do realize the current system could
probably be enhanced a bit.
Re the TX1 vs TX3 full call issue I felt being able to send:
DE VE7AFZ/R R CN99
For example was helpful at times as it included my full call with the "/R" a R
(for roger) and my grid all in one message. This seems to convey a lot of
helpful information in one message.
Like I said in a prior post I am still working thru the optimal way to use the
software (especially in crowded bands) and appreciate all suggestions.
73
Mark S
VE7AFZ/R
mark@alignedsolutions.com
604 762 4099
> On Jun 13, 2018, at 10:00 AM, "k2drh@frontiernet.net" <k2drh@frontiernet.net>
> wrote:
>
> I'm gonna try one more time -- even in plain text mode it didn't pick up the
> carriage returns arrgh_____Hopefully this will be less jumbled all together
> and be more readable
> -------
>
> Very well written and thought out Marshall. Thanks for that and for opening
> the discussion of FT8 use during a VHF contest. With a Flex 6700 I run a
> separate panadapter and RX slices that monitor both MSK144 and FT8 all the
> time with multiple instances of WSJT-X decoding them. Here are some
> thoughts, experiences and maybe some different perspectives for further
> discussion.
>
> ------
>
> 1.There is no doubt of the value of having this tool for when the band is
> “closed” to CW/SSB or at least unavailable for most stations (i.e. without
> large antenna arrays). It definitely takes advantage of marginal Es
> conditions and short bubbles like no other can. ------
>
> 2.It is however most useful for signals that are steady or slowly fading up
> and down. It becomes upset and will not decode when there are sudden changes
> like meteor pings, doppler, rapid fading from ionoscatter, multipath and a
> host of other propagation anomalies often found on 6M. As such it can be
> very frustrating causing traces to appear and disappear with few if any
> decodes. I believe some of these anomalies are responsible for the “one and
> done” type decodes we often get.
> -----
>
> 3. The Contest Mode needs to be better documented in the manual. It may be
> obvious to us but the checkbox for contest mode does not even appear in the
> FT8 window unless you have Enable VHF, UHF and Microwave features checked in
> the settings. This is not discussed in the FT8 section of the manual nor is
> it mentioned in the section that discusses these features.
> -------
>
> 4.There is a pop up prompt that asks you if you should be in contest mode
> when you are in the “normal” report mode and receive a “funny number” grid.
> If you say yes it will put you in contest mode for that QSO and advance
> normally, but it will revert back for the next one. I’m not sure why
> stations just don’t say yes or just fail open on this. Maybe they just don’t
> understand what it means. I suspect since the program can detect this it
> could be made to “force” contest mode, but the developers apparently d I'm
> gonna try one more time -- even in plain text mode it didn't pick up the
> carriage returns arrgh_____Hopefully this will be less jumbled all together
> and be more readable
> -------
>
> Very well written and thought out Marshall. Thanks for that and for opening
> the discussion of FT8 use during a VHF contest. With a Flex 6700 I run a
> separate panadapter and RX slices that monitor both MSK144 and FT8 all the
> time with multiple instances of WSJT-X decoding them. Here are some
> thoughts, experiences and maybe some different perspectives for further
> discussion.
>
> ------
>
> 1.There is no doubt of the value of having this tool for when the band is
> “closed” to CW/SSB or at least unavailable for most stations (i.e. without
> large antenna arrays). It definitely takes advantage of marginal Es
> conditions and short bubbles like no other can. ------
>
> 2.It is however most useful for signals that are steady or slowly fading up
> and down. It becomes upset and will not decode when there are sudden changes
> like meteor pings, doppler, rapid fading from ionoscatter, multipath and a
> host of other propagation anomalies often found on 6M. As such it can be
> very frustrating causing traces to appear and disappear with few if any
> decodes. I believe some of these anomalies are responsible for the “one and
> done” type decodes we often get.
> -----
>
> 3. The Contest Mode needs to be better documented in the manual. It may be
> obvious to us but the checkbox for contest mode does not even appear in the
> FT8 window unless you have Enable VHF, UHF and Microwave features checked in
> the settings. This is not discussed in the FT8 section of the manual nor is
> it mentioned in the section that discusses these features.
> -------
>
> 4.There is a pop up prompt that asks you if you should be in contest mode
> when you are in the “normal” report mode and receive a “funny number” grid.
> If you say yes it will put you in contest mode for that QSO and advance
> normally, but it will revert back for the next one. I’m not sure why
> stations just don’t say yes or just fail open on this. Maybe they just don’t
> understand what it means. I suspect since the program can detect this it
> could be made to “force” contest mode, but the developers apparently decided
> not to do that.
>
> -----
>
> 5.VHF Contest mode is NOT used in Europe only NA. The manual says in section
> 17 that it should not be used when there is international DX involved and its
> due to the due the reciprocal grid square kludge they had to use to make
> contest mode work (it was an afterthought). Using contest mode all the time
> on 6M and above could really mess up working DX. Worse there are Eurocentric
> knockoff programs that also decode FT8 like FTDX that don’t even HAVE contest
> mode since it is of no use to Europeans or HF stations. Apparently a lot of
> domestic stations are using these knockoffs.
> -----
>
> 6.Unlike Marshall’s crew some stations continue to call on FT8 even when the
> band is open. This is not productive. Crowding of several strong signals
> into one RX bandwidth will cause most receivers to overload and WSJT to fail
> to decode all the signals in the passband.
> -----
> 7.Not sure why some seem to insist that you reply on their offset but I saw
> that too. It’s actually better not to since if several stations reply at once
> they will QRM each other. The program will actually stop you from TXing if
> it sees you on the same offset when it decodes another station working him.
> Section 7 of this operating guide addresses this.
> https://www.physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/FT8_Operating_Tips.pdf
>
> ----
>
> 8.Rovers do have difficulty using /R. Right now it can be ambiguous who the
> rover is calling/working. Receiving some TX messages from a rover now can
> make the auto sequencing advance on stations that are NOT working the rover.
> Some ambiguity can be alieved by changing the Settings for type 2 compound
> call holders from the default of Full Call in TX3 to Full Call in TX1.
> ------
> 9.Most of the /R problem could be eliminated by making the /R a Type 1
> suffix in the software so the /R is only used in TX1 and TX6 which should be
> sufficient since in contest mode it normally skips over TX2 anyway (unless of
> course you double click TX1 and make the program shortcut right to TX2 which
> would not have the /R appended – nothing is perfect sigh) . I think we
> should petition the developers to make this change. You’d have to be sharp
> enough to catch the /R in any case (but you should be OPERATING anyway, not
> in drone mode like so many seem to be).
>
> ----
>
> 10.My pet peeve is that once stations go to FT8 they don’t bother to tune 2M
> or 6M analog for CQs or CQ there anymore. Unlike Marshall who has much less
> activity on 2M and above in his part of the country I see lots of locals with
> 2, 3 or more bands CQ all day on 6M FT8 and its difficult to pry them away
> from their computer screens to QSY to 2M and work some real radio. FT8 on 6M
> seems as addictive as crack. My 2M and up totals really suffered from this
> behavior. The ARRL thumping the drum about the wonders of FT8 in a VHF
> contest without going into the problems we all saw (see the latest contest
> newsletter) isn’t helping much either.
>
> ----
> 11.There are ways to get stations to QSY to 2M in the 13 character TX5 free
> message but it’s hard and takes up a lot of time. I tried a few different
> ones:
> ---- a. Just sending QSY 2M? or even WB#xxx QSY 2M (exactly 13 – spaces
> count) resulted in fail open most of the time or at best a free message back
> that said “Where?” or “Freq?” and took a lot of time. Am I wrong or do we
> have a CALL frequency on 2M where you can CALL another station? Seemed
> obvious to me but …
>
> -----
>
>
> b. Sending QSY 144xxx was also inefficient and wasted time while it was
> processed (who, me?). I also kept hoping that maybe multiple locals would see
> it and try to make a few more Qs too, but I guess it never occurred to them
> to try.
>
> -----
>
>
> c. Sending WB#nnn 144210 (also 13) worked the best since the other guy sees
> his call in RED in the windows, knows it’s for him, knows where and can
> respond yea or nay – best response being K2DRH QSY or K2DRH 2M or even K2DRH
> NO 2M since it directs it at me. Still takes a while though.
>
> ----
>
>
> 12. On ON4KST the 205 Group in the mornings we have been very successful
> using FT8 on 2M 144.174 for 300-500 mile and even longer contacts. Sometime
> there are several stations on at once. I saw none of this going on during
> the contest. This has some real potential.------
> Well I guess that’s my 12 step program for FT8 operating. Your mileage may
> vary.
> ------
> 73 de Bob K2DRH
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