As a counterpoint, the fear of missing a station prevails on any mode. One
draw with FT-x is you know where to look and that "channel" is QRM tolerant
compared to a hand full of big guns on SSB calling CQ on top of each other
and/or trying to run the other guy off. On the mouse clicking mode, I don't
see much difference between that and calling CQ on a dead or marginal bands
for hours on end. No denying it, we have all done that praying for the next
QSO to come along.
200 Q's per hour may not be there today, it maybe related to the digital
modes, but at least there is identifiable activity when it is detected.
With the spots coming back, we may see the long periods of 6m being open for
high rates on any mode. Not if, but when that happens, I think you will see
the cross pollination of activity currently lacking in the non-digital part
of the band.
Mike K9MK
PS: I'll be in DN28 this weekend, FT-8 only, SSB'ers listen up please.
-----Original Message-----
From: VHFcontesting <vhfcontesting-bounces+k9mk=flash.net@contesting.com> On
Behalf Of Ben S
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 11:36 AM
To: vhfcontesting@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] VHFcontesting Digest, Vol 229, Issue 15
FT8 is great for making a few contacts or grabbing those hard to hit
stations. I do think there is a self perpetuating fear of missing contacts
that to some degree causes operators to stay on FT8 long after the
conditions are there for ssb or cw i.e. everyone is on FT8 and the rest of
the band is blank so the natural inclination is to stay with the herd.
Otherwise why spend hours on end with a mouse clicking mode that is the
culinary equivalent of eating cardboard for breakfast every morning?
Ben KB0ZOM
On Fri, Jan 14, 2022, 11:00 <vhfcontesting-request@contesting.com> wrote:
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> 1. Re: FT8 and VHF contesting (Jay RM)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 09:48:25 -0700
> From: Jay RM <w9rm@calmesapartners.com>
> To: "vhfcontesting@contesting.com" <VHFcontesting@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] FT8 and VHF contesting
> Message-ID:
> <
> CACCAnzXutsc4+d6GEkoQCq-pr10GN7NYM_z+VcJZG3BQG485Dg@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> ..and FT4 is painfully slow compared to SSB (...or CW) when signals
> are stronger.
>
> Anybody who is a died-in-the-wool CONTESTER abhors what has happened
> on 6M during June and July contests. How is the "art of contesting"
> served by 40-50/hour run rates on digital ? The real problem is, only
> 25% of us on a given contest weekend are serious, the rest are leisure
> time ops, just looking to work somebody...anybody. "They" are the ops
> that allowed "us", the serious contesters, to have our fun and
> adrenaline rush, running a 200+ hour on SSB.
>
> Those ops, the ones that count, are gone, never to return to SSB
> (...yes, or CW). Change the rules all you want, add more incentive,
> add more 'coolness', whatever - they are tied to FT8 and are not going
> to bite and move to another mode, because FT8 is what they want - some
> time to make a few easy Qs without worrying about pile-ups, procedure,
ect.
>
> Yes, VHF contesting dynamics have changed drastically - strategy is
> NOTHING like it used to be. Participants can either change, deal with
> the vastly reduced hourly rate (,,and the Qs you may not have been
> able to work before
> - yes, a very good positive) and forge on. Or, if you're a rate
> junkie, retire from the VHF contest game and move on to something else
> - I doubt the FT8 contesters will miss us much.
>
> -W9RM
> Certified rate junkie and ex-VHF contest op
>
> Keith J Morehouse
> Managing Partner
> Calmesa Partners G.P.
> Olathe, CO
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 8:41 AM Chuck Dietz <w5prchuck@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think many contesters would agree that we should not penalize or
> > discourage FT8, however, it would be good if we could encourage FT4
> because
> > it is not as painfully slow.
> >
> > Chuck W5PR
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 9:08 AM <chetsubaccount@snet.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello fellow contesters,
> > >
> > > Some recent threads here and elsewhere about FT8 have prompted me
> > > to express my alternate view.
> > >
> > > I agree with the summary statement that FT8 has presented VHF
> contesters
> > a
> > > complex problem.
> > >
> > > What I do not agree with is that FT8 has ruined VHF contesting.
> > > The
> most
> > > vocal about its demise seem to be the big mega MM stations. I
> understand
> > > the
> > > angst; they have put in a huge effort over the decades to optimize
> their
> > > station capability and team and now it doesn't work the same anymore.
> The
> > > old ways have been challenged. But that beautiful 4-1000A 6M
> > > amplifier
> > and
> > > plate modulator had to sadly be replaced too.
> > >
> > > For a station like mine that runs low power, the changes are exciting.
> In
> > > the past, from here in CT, I could hear a distant big operation
> > > like
> > K8GP,
> > > AA4ZZ, or W3SO long before they could hear me, if at all. But
> > > using
> FT8
> > I
> > > have that extra 15-20 dB of help and now I will likely get that grid.
> > >
> > > For many years I've maintained my own VHF call history file to
> > > use
> with
> > my
> > > logging program. When I started trying FT8 a couple of years ago,
> > > it
> was
> > > striking how many local stations I'd work that were NOT in that
> > > history file. That means a LOT more (new?) amateurs are getting on
> > > for the
> > contest.
> > >
> > > For any mode, to do well you still need a good station and antenna
> > system.
> > > Make that a never-ending part of your effort. As an avid contester
> > > and
> > not
> > > a
> > > DXer, over the years I've put-up multiple antennas and switching
> systems
> > to
> > > provide wide azimuthal coverage. Other improvements are still
> > > being pondered. Consider this: A 5 element yagi has a 3dB
> > > beamwidth of 54 degrees. On FT8 the equivalent MDS azimuth coverage
is now 128 deg.
> > > Remarkable! This wider coverage and increased boresight range
> > > makes
> many
> > > more contacts possible. If you want to fare better, adapt, and
> > > keep improving.
> > >
> > > Does FT8 take over for the operator? It could, if someone chooses
> > > to
> > watch
> > > the New England Patriots get whomped and just click a mouse now
> > > and
> > again.
> > > But an avid contest op will watch the decode screen every cycle,
> > > notice
> > how
> > > strong stations are (for clues when to go to ssb or cw), note who
> > > is
> new,
> > > scan for a new mult, make decisions what antenna to select right
> > > now
> and
> > > next, decide if the current qso really is complete, etc. An avid
> > > op
> will
> > > acquire a feel from experience for what part of the day to try
> > > beaming north, or to go on SSB for a while.
> > >
> > > Want more challenge? Reconfigure your station to allow having one
> session
> > > going on 6M and another on 2M at the same time. That will get the
> little
> > > grey cells going to do it and in learning SO2R think. How does
> > > using
> real
> > > time texting to "arrange" a contact do that?
> > >
> > > A traditionalist may suggest penalizing the use of digital modes
> > > thru
> > rules
> > > revisions. Hmmm. so the amateur that puts in thought and maybe a
> > > lot of resource into trying and maybe even adding EME capability
> > > (as many MM stations have done) to try to work more multipliers
> > > should be shown the door now? I thought the point of contesting
> > > was to encourage technical
> > learning
> > > and skills, not discouraging it. It is our own choice to use or
> > > not use EME, or FT8, or spectrum windows, chat rooms, rover
> > > circling, remote radio,
> or
> > > other new ideas, but should not discourage those that are trying them.
> > Find
> > > your own personal comfort zone and enjoy your operation.
> > >
> > > 73, and keep on growing,
> > > Chet, N8RA
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > VHFcontesting mailing list
> > > VHFcontesting@contesting.com
> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > VHFcontesting mailing list
> > VHFcontesting@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
> >
>
>
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