FT8 has its' place, I can work distant stations that are far less
equipped that I could on cw and some operators don't operate cw so it's not
in anyones' best interest to penalize digital modes. It's just that they
aren't very friendly for passing and they are slower than 2304 on a Sunday
afternoon when there is a football game on !! Getting folks to move to FT4
is as hard as getting them to go to SSB. With all the other contests going
on, splitting weekends doesn't make sense. Keep the points the same, just
make it like the 10m contest where you can work both analog and digital. I
still think making the contest 48 hrs and half analog and half digital has
huge advantages. Get all the passing and easier Q's on analog and the
squeakers on digital.
Terry Price - W8ZN
Directive Systems and Engineering
703-754-3876
On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 12:06 PM stanka1ze--- via NEWSVHF <
newsvhf@mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> My thought was to encourage dx stations to continue to work a dx grid
> even if he has already logged it. Example: a station in EM96 works a
> station in FN20 on digital. Without points for EM96 station he would have
> no incentive to work any other FN20 stations on digital.
> Question: if you work a station on digital would you be able to scrap the
> QSO and work him for a higher point value mode like ssb or cw?
> On Monday, January 13, 2025 at 11:50:13 AM EST, Fred Stefanik <
> n1dpmfred@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But distance doesn't discourage using digital for non DX contacts
> Stan....73Fred
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 11:39 AM stanka1ze@aol.com <stanka1ze@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> Interesting Fred, using digital for working dx and only receiving minimal
> points discourages dx stations from working others once they have logged
> the grid. How about including a distance incentive?
> Stan
> On Monday, January 13, 2025 at 10:24:11 AM EST, Fred Stefanik <
> n1dpmfred@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg and all,
>
> I would like to propose a modification to what you've proposed....
> The prime usefulness for digital modes (FT8, MSK144, JT65, Q65) is the
> ability to pull weak signals from the noise better than could be done
> without the aid of a PC and software. This makes these modes "preferred"
> for DX QSO's. The other thing it does as far as FT8 and MSK144 are
> concerned is it puts all the activity on one frequency "channel" all at the
> same time so you know where these stations will be. I feel this is a
> bigger advantage than the benefits of the digital mode itself. In analog
> we now have the ability to use sites such as ON4KST, N0UK EME, and Ping
> Jockey to make skeds with stations helping to locate them for QSO's. These
> too could be used for digital QSO's also. The "abuse" that happens with
> the digital modes (primarily FT8) and what has caused all this commotion is
> that a large number of stations seem to gravitate to the FT8 frequencies on
> 6 and 2 meters as a PRIMARY means of gathering QSO's both near and far.
> This I feel is because of the "all the fish in one barrel" phenomenon. In
> fact on 6 meters, for regular non contest operation the band could be wide
> open with lots of strong signals on 50.313 and there is NOBODY down on
> 50.125 plus on SSB. It has COMPLETELY taken over 6 meters! So I think
> from a VHF / UHF contest perspective we need to allow the use of these
> digital modes, but adjust the scoring to skew it so that this isn't the
> place to be to work a large number of stations that are (for lack of better
> terms) "locals", but to use the modes as intended to stretch the distance
> of DX QSO's. In a contest when you work those DX stations it is a huge
> benefit to the score as this is the way to substantially increase your grid
> / multiplier count thereby tremendously increasing your score for working
> that DX. This is what I feel the "incentive" should be for using the
> digital modes and not just for making QSO's . To accomplish this my
> initial proposal that I had floated out there was to leave all the scoring
> as is by band for points for analog QSO's and keep the multipliers (grids)
> as is also for all QSO's but to make digital mode QSO's worth zero points.
> This means that you need to use the digital modes to "hunt new grids /
> multipliers" making this activity back to what these modes were intended to
> be used for....DX QSO's. Now I proposed the zero points for digital QSO's
> but it could be something like 1 for digital, 5 for SSB, 10 for CW, but
> then what do you do with the points for going higher in frequency? So that
> would have to be worked out. Maybe you make an overall multiplier for the
> score based on the number of bands you have submitted QSO's on??? I don't
> know..... But clearly the goal needs to be to use the modes we have at our
> disposal for making QSO's and activating the bands. Some people say this
> is the primary goal. I don't think it is! I think that it is secondary to
> making our small VHF / UHF community happy and enthusiastic about wanting
> to get on and use the bands we have and operate in these contests as that's
> when there's a concentration of activity. If we have a community that does
> not like the circumstances and therefor does not get on in these contests
> then guess what ....we are heading VHF UHF contesting down a path of
> extinction!
> 73
> Fred
> K1FMS
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 8:40 AM Greg Troxel <gdt@lexort.com> wrote:
>
> > I haven't done VHF contesting seriously for years; I used to be one of
> > the W1XM operators in the mid/late 80s and early 90s. I am very
> > sympathetic to the problem of everything turning into FTx.
> >
> > This happens at Field Day, too. Either because of my club's culture, or
> > the rules, we end up with a CW station, SSB station, and digital
> > station. Long ago the digital station was probably RTTY, and now it's
> > pretty much FT4. This is an ok outcome. (There's a separate issue,
> > which is that people use the Internet for time sync, and I think all use
> > of Internet should be banned at FD because in theory it's an emergency
> > preparedness exercise.)
> >
> >
> > My idea for VHF contests is to allow one contact per band/mode/station,
> > so you could work someone on SSB, CW, and a digital mode. (Yes, I know
> > CW is technically digital, but I mean "a computer mode.) Then, it's
> > just a question of setting point values to encourage activity. I would
> > suggest
> >
> > 1 FTx
> > 5 SSB
> > 10 CW
> >
> > This aligns ssb/cw with FD's points, I think (I don't really pay
> > attention to the contest part; for me it's emergency preparedness and
> > cookout). But the ssb/cw mix isn't that important; it's setting the
> > rules so that people who operating only FTx leave massive numbers of
> > points on the table.
> >
> > 73 de n1dam
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