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[AMPS] parasitic suppressors

To: <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [AMPS] parasitic suppressors
From: measures@vc.net (Rich Measures)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:05:27 -0700


>
>Rich Measures wrote:
>
>>>From: Ian White, G3SEK [SMTP:G3SEK@ifwtech.demon.co.uk]
>>>
>>>I used to think that the Q of a parasitic suppressor had some meaning.
>>>having looked at the problem in detail, I don't believe that any more.
>>>
>>?  Has standard AC Circuit Analysis been obviated?  
>
>On the contrary... but it has been used on the whole circuit, not just
>stopping at the suppressor.
>
?  the L-R suppressor can be measured on a Z analyzer.  The whole circuit 
can not.  

>>Has Dick looked at 
>>the numbers in Wes' measurements?  
>
>The original was from me - Dick was the messenger.
>
>>>The parasitic suppressor operates only on #3 and #1. But in fact the big
>>>unknown is #2, because it depends on the individual design and
>>>construction. 
>>
>>?    Fortunately, #2 can be found on the mfg's technical specification 
>>sheets.  It is the tube's internal feedback C from the output element to 
>>the input element.  
>>
>If that one parameter was truly was all that mattered, you'd be able to
>design a suppressor by theory alone.

?   Ca-g or Ca-k does no more that tell one how much output-to-input 
feedback capacitance exists inside the tube..  
>
>Other unknowns that affect feedback include: the series impedance that
>prevents the common element (grid or cathode) from being completely
>grounded; the impedance of the input side, as seen by the tube at the
>frequency of oscillation; the effects of direct inductive or capacitive
>feedback around the tube; feedback through not-quite bypassed wiring;
>etc, etc...
>
?  agreed
>
>>> That's why you always have to develop the suppressor by
>>>cut-and-try methods.
>>>
>>?  If R-supp burns out on 10m, the vhf suppressor is out of business.  
>
>Ironically, the dissipation at 10m is one of the few things you *can*
>estimate accurately using theory.
>
? agreed.  The (exact) calculus is somewhat more difficult.  .   
>
>>>Finally, the characteristics of the suppressor consist of TWO numbers, R
>>>and X (both of which will vary with frequency... yes, even R). To work
>>>out what the suppressor will do for an amplifier, you need BOTH of those
>>>numbers separately. If you roll the two numbers together and talk only
>>>about a single value of Q, you have just thrown away any chance of truly
>>>understanding what is going on!
>>>
>>?   Calculating Q at the anode resonance freq. is throwing away any 
>>chance of truly understanding? 
>>   Q is inexorably related to Rp and Rp is 
>>a major determiner of vhf gain. 
>>
>If you take "Standard AC Circuit Analysis" ALL THE WAY, you need to know
>both R and X. Their ratio Q doesn't tell you enough. 

?    Solving R and X to arrive at Q hardly results in the loss of R and 
X.  When it comes to comparing damping devices, is mo' Q mo' betta?.   
>
>>//  To me, Dick's dire proscription to 
>>ignore Q sounds like what prestidigitators call "misdirection". 
>>
>Misdirection is making the audience look at only one thing (let's call
>it Q), while the real action is somewhere else. What I said was exactly
>the opposite: look at EVERYTHING that matters.

?  Maybe I'm confused.  Was it you or Dick Ehrhorn who said not to look 
at Q? 
>>  
>>- In the Wizard of Oz, wasn't there a proscription to ignore the man 
>>behind the curtain? 
>
>Indeed there was... but this isn't Oz.

?   Whenever someone tells me to ignore something, personal experience 
tells me it's time to start paying closer attention. .    
>
-  cheers, Ian


Rich...

R. L. Measures, 805-386-3734, AG6K, www.vcnet.com/measures  


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