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Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"

To: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <k2av.guy@gmail.com>, "TopBand List" <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"
From: "Tom W8JI" <w8ji@w8ji.com>
Reply-to: Tom W8JI <w8ji@w8ji.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:28:52 -0400
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
One would think if there was a 10-20 db penalty, it would show on skimmers and that W2GD would be unbeatable being on the water. I'm sure I'm missing
something. What is it I am missing?

A contest certainly is not only about transmit signal strength, nor is
the lowest angle propagation always the most productive. There is
always the 27 dB gain between the operator's ears (or lack of it) to
be reckoned with.

But skimmer, which displays a relative level, does not show the level difference.

Skimmer shows about the same peak levels, but the stations closer or over salt water paths (not localized salt water) have longer openings but no more level for peak level. Anyone can look at that.

K3LR is about as strong into Europe, when I look at skimmer levels, as someone on the coast.

The exceptions are people right next door to Europe (like VY1).

VOA relocated in NC to improve signals from the old New Jersey/New York stations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Broadcasting_Bureau_Greenville_Transmitting_Station


35.697429, -77.150056 is about 30 miles from Swan Bay, and maybe 60 from the ocean.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1126131,-76.4678737,10z

Now understand I'm not saying salt water does not help groundwave tremendously, but people inland needn't fear being competitive. I can't find any supporting data for 10-20 dB, or longer propagation time, other than being significantly closer to the target area or perhaps having saltwater path at the first hop out.

It also can be quieter when directional antennas beam out over water, which lacks urban noise.

If we compare K3LR's signal to someone from the black hole, when the path is near the north magnetic pole (and distance is similar), there is a world of difference. Not so between inland and the east coast at similar path angles and distance, other than darkness times.

It would be interesting to see real data of the differences, because it is tough to see on skimmer watching signal levels.

This should be an interesting thing to look at objectively and maturely.

73 Tom
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