Hi Dave,
Having done one-man DXpeditions myself to non-rare countries when I was
a lot younger, as well as being the
first to put the new "Status Aparte" country of Aruba on the air in
January 1986, and having to haul several
hundred pounds of cable, equipment and tools there and back by myself, I
have some personal understanding of what is
involved, although nothing on the scale of present DXpeditions to truly
rare countries.
I agree with your assessment that by using digital modes, ops of many
low level stations can participate and
work the DXpeditions on bands they otherwise would have no chance of
working them on. That's a GOOD thing
for everyone!
However I have a different take on the rest.
If a DXpedition is spending "hours calling CQ on 160 for an hour only to
show one or two QSO's for the effort"
then they are wasting everyone's time. Good Dxpeditions DON'T do things
like that. PERIOD. Good Dxpedition have
knowledge of propagation to target areas, they solicit comments about
propagation/band openings from those who want to
work the DXpedition and they remain flexible with their operating
schedule, changing plans on the fly to take advantage
of band openings that have been consistent throughout the DXpedition and
depending on propagation and, where possible,
they try to accommodate the ops trying to work them and they do so
seamlessly.
As far as FT8 producing more qso's/hour on 160/80 than CW or SSB, I
certainly take issue with that.
Of course propagation, local station issues, qrn, politics, host
requirements and a raft of other obligations/issues
all mitigate planning, but the point is, if 80 SSB is open NOW, and
signals are good, then someone should be there
NOW NOT an hour from now! Unless there is absolutely unfilterable
horrendous qrm, and/or there is a lousy opr. present, the SSB rates/ hr
will
FAR EXCEED anything that can be done on digital modes. This is even
more true on 80 CW. And it is also true on 160 cw.
A good operator knows how to manage the qrm/qrn and still make good
rates. It's part of what they learned in order to become
a good operator.
Sure, a lot is dependent on the operator(s) but that is true of any
operator/band opening/DXpedition. The personnel
and operating proficiency of some DXpeditions remind me of the
equivalent of untrained "tourists" attempting to summit Mt. Everest.
Today, untrained, largely unprepared people with lots of money and poor
skills, can pay for the privilege of climbing Mt. Everest.
They have no business being there but their money buys them the access
whether it makes sense or not. Some DXpeditions today
seem to operate on a similar principle; largely unskilled people with
lots of money get to go to rare places and be DX in a casual way
- mostly disappointing "the faithful". Of course tt's their money and
their right to do as they please, but no one says that we have to like
it.
OTOH, some Dxpeditions are OUTSTANDING - great operating, great timing,
a willingness to work people on certain bands when the openings are
there. We appreciate and remember them. And they can still find time
for digital. The hallmark of greats ops and a great DXpedition
is that they work everyone regardless of mode and when cndx are marginal
they still work everyone.
There is no reason why digital modes and CW/SSB should have to be a zero
sum game. When a band is open use CW and SSB. When
it is too marginal use digital. Operate on the most challenging
bands/modes FIRST whenever the opportunity presents itself
and then go to other bands/modes from there.
In a DX contest I almost always go to 10 meters first, because the
openings are limited relative to other bands. In a Mixed mode
contest I start on CW and go to SSB when the band opens better. It's
not a hard to figure out. It just takes a willingness to be
flexible and go where the rate is and sometimes that means dealing with
marginal signals with more challenging operating cndx.
But operating skill and a willingness to "deal with it" puts hundreds of
additional qso's in the log whereas a different op would waste
that valuable time on something else. And when all the CW and SSB
possible is worked out, by all means go to Digital, but digital should
NOT be the "GO TO" de facto operating "strategy"!
In CQWWSSB, great US ops at really good stations in a great year, can
make 5,000 qso's. In an average year can make ~ 4,000 - 4,500+ qsos
and in a lousy year can still make 3,000 - 3,500 qsos.
Take that same great op and put them at a mediocre station in an average
year and they will still make 3,000 - 3,500 qsos while
the typical op will make 1,500 or quit. DXpeditions are no different.
Skill and "want to" make all the difference. One op's marginal band
opening is another ops low band RUN.
In your example, if you are on 160 cqing and making 1 - 2 qso's / hour,
you are on the wrong band. It should take 5 minutes to figure that out,
not 60 and then you qsy to 80 and then 40 if you have to, and then you
go back to 80 or 160 when it improves. Just like what good single ops.
do in EVERY contest!
And then you go back to 80 or 40 and back again to 80 or 160 depending
on which is open. It's not hard. You just have to understand that that
is the way propagation works and be willing to do it.
And if you only have a choice of 1 or 2 antennas vs. antennas on all the
bands, then you still do the same thing with the available antennas.
And if you are committed to a specific band, all night, then alternate
between the modes, SSB when open, CW when barely open and digital when
the band is not open at all and you need to work stations below the
noise. US the strength of each mode as a tool to maximizing qso's in
the log. If someone thinks that means use Digital all the time as a
default then they do not understand ALL the communications modes and how
best to use them!
I'll bet that the DXpedition that executes that strategy well gets more
$ than the DXpeditions that don't. And a lot more appreciation and
gratitude from the stations that worked it rather than the ones whose
needs were ignored by it.
73
Bob, KQ2M
On 2022-11-06 11:02, Artek Manuals wrote:
I see this as a two sided coin
160 and 80 tough bands for CW let alone SSB. In the end it is a signal
to noise problem. Which FT8 overcomes by several dB. FT8 levels the
playing field for those of us who don't have the money for a mega
station on several acres with 100 ft towers,etc (not knocking those
guys if I win the lottery it will be near the top of my list) .
At this point FT8 has become the defacto preferred DXpedition mode for
many because it usually produces the most QSO's/hour on 160/80 . If I
were a dxpedition why would I spend hours calling CQ on 160 for an
hour only to show one or two QSO's for the effort, kinda like a DIY
lobotomy with an ice pick....8^(, Maybe I should use that time up on
40M instead, giving a smaller gun a shot at an ATNO, (argument for a
different thread...please). For some expeditions #of QSO's is about
the $$$, more QSO's = more donations. In this day and age the cost of
a major DXpedition is a mind blowing amount of $$$$ (Look at upcoming
Bouvet, which is in the hole still ..if you haven't donated time to
dig in your pocket) not knocking anyone just stating a fact of life.
Dave
NR1DX
"before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes...that way
when you do criticize them you will have a mile head start and you
will have their shoes !"
On 11/5/2022 2:39 PM, kq2m@kq2m.com wrote:
<SNIP>
I am not interested in the digital modes, preferring the traditional
modes of CW and SSB. I understand that others feel differently, which
is fine. But it bothers me that DXpeditions are now avoiding CW on
80/160 because they just don't want to bother.
73
Bob, KQ2M
On 2022-11-05 12:45, Tom wrote:
On thursday night conditions here in w1 land were outstanding!
J28MD
(cw) and 5V7RU (ft8) got in the log and I heard HS0ZOY (ft8) at his
SR
at -5 for about 5 minutes. first HS I have ever heard.
hope i get a chance with T88.
On Nov 5, 2022, at 12:00 PM, David Raymond
<daraymond@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
Greetings Topbanders. . .
I've spent a considerable amount of time on watch this past week for
J28MD on Topband (CW). While they've spent a fair amount of time on
TB I haven't yet had success yet in spite of my ongoing efforts. I
believe it was this past Tuesday night when Joel, W5ZN, said they
appeared briefly out of the noise (about 10 minutes or so and did
have success with his BSEF-8 and Hi-Z 8 arrays in diversity) then
disappeared the rest of the evening. Wednesday night's opening to NA
was much longer starting on the East coast and slowly sweeping
westward with quite a few NA making it in the log (EC + 5's, 8's, &
9s', VE). Unfortunately the prop just never quite made it this far
west. They barely peaked out of the noise here in Iowa Wednesday
evening (NA time) just enough to get me excited and dump my call a
few times hoping for even a marginal QSO. . . but no cigar. It's a
little frustrating to see that they always QRT about 30 minutes or
so prior to their SR but they get credit for being on faithfully on
CW and FT8 as well. I know they're getting close to wrapping up but
hopefully they'll be on (CW) again this evening.
It's been good to have some DX operations QRV and bring some much
needed life to TB (which sure hasn't had much). . .TY0, 5V, and now
J28, A3, and T88. The prop has been very poor. CQing here in the
evening brings no DX responses and only a handful of EU EBN hits so
far this season. Thankfully mornings have activity from our very
stalwart VK friends (VK3HJ, VK2WF, VK6GX, VK6IR, VK6LW, others) but
only a handful of JA QSOs so far this season (8 to be exact).
JA1LZR gets kudos for being QRV almost every morning (NA time), but
without much prop, I think only limited success. I have yet to
hit the VK4CT RBN CQing here in the mornings. I don't think this is
totally attributable to the increased SFI. . . prop from here was
only marginally better two seasons ago when the SFI was very low.
All that said, I encourage everyone to get on and make some noise.
73. . . Dave, W0FLS (in Iowa)
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