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Re: [TowerTalk] [Bulk] Re: Grinding hole in thick steel plate?

To: "towertalk@contesting.com reflector" <TOWERTALK@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [Bulk] Re: Grinding hole in thick steel plate?
From: Chris <EZRhino@fastmovers.biz>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 10:14:53 -0600
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
I don't think anyone has mentioned this possibility:  Fill in the existing hole 
with weld and start over.

Chris
KF7P





On Sep 8, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Grant Saviers wrote:

> Roger makes a number of good points.  I would add a couple.
> 
> Annular cutters are basically end mills, so if you have a rigid enough setup, 
> one might be carefully be used to off-center enlarge a hole.  A Mag-Drill is 
> designed for such cutters to drill into heavy plate but they and cutters are 
> not cheap.  The advantage is only a ring of steel is being removed, not the 
> entire hole as with a twist drill.  That reduces the thrust force needed to a 
> level that can be handled by the electro-magnet that holds the drill to the 
> plate. Plenty of cutting coolant is needed.
> 
> A "hole saw"  would be useless in 3/4" thick steel plate and without a pilot 
> drill center just wouldn't work no matter how rigid the setup.  Don't ask how 
> I've broken off a saw hub.  Metal fatigue won.
> 
> I know it is appealing to use an end mill of the hole diameter to move the 
> center, but for moving a 1.5" hole 0.25", that is an expensive end mill 
> ($150).  So for this job I would use a boring head and carbide tipped bar 
> ($15).  it will take a bit longer, but much less downside in tooling costs 
> and usually in most hobby machinist tool boxes.  That is also a much too 
> large an end mill for a Bridgeport cutting steel.
> 
> One other way to enlarge a hole is a "core drill"  which is specifically 
> designed for that purpose.  However, they won't move a hole off its nominal 
> center.  Usually, they only cut on the outer one half to one third of the 
> radius of the drill.  With a tapered lead, they center on the existing hole 
> and enlarge it to the drill size.  If used in a mill or lathe, near reamer 
> tolerances and finish are possible.  It is practical to use one up to about 
> 5/8" dia in a hand drill.  I think the source of the name "core" comes from 
> the need to drill "cored" holes in castings to the desired size.  They are 
> particularly useful in a lathe to quickly increase an inside diameter rather 
> than multiple boring bar passes, e.g 1" to 2" in one pass, but that takes all 
> of the 10 horsepower in my big lathe. Impressive (and dangerous) swarf 
> 'though.
> 
> There are core drill sets that are pretty useful to 3/4", particularly for 
> pilot holes for a large chassis punch and larger holes in thicker steel.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NORSEMAN-MAGNUM-SP-8HH-HOLE-HOG-REAMER-DRILL-BIT-4-FLUTE-SET-3-8-3-4-USA-/301607300147?hash=item4639322c33
> 
> As Roger points out many "hand held" drills have the torque to hurt.  A 
> friend broke his wrist recently with one that grabbed.
> 
> Grant KZ1W
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/8/2015 3:03 AM, Roger (K8RI) on TT wrote:
>> 
>> Using the original plate as a guide in a drill press, or a hand held with a 
>> magnetic base is a good approach.  I don't know if the off center cutting 
>> will force the side of the bit to cut into the guide,  Use good, 
>> substantial, C-Clamps to hold the plate and guide securely to the press base 
>> plate, guide.  Don't use small clamps.
>> 
>> The best, safest, and quickest is still a machine shop, or someone with a 
>> mill that knows how to use it.
>> A high speed grinder with "good bits is slow and tedious work, There is also 
>> a learning curve. I know it's tempting and I'm the type who wants to do it 
>> himself, but...
>> 
>> I know I'm covering a little more than the original post asked, but I think 
>> it's appropriate.
>> 
>> Large drill bits used off center with out a good, solid guide tend to grab 
>> and once they grab, they tend to bounce around the hole, grabbing as they go 
>> with each grab becoming more dangerous.  They are likely to become a real 
>> arm, or leg breaker if you use your leg as a brace because each grab is an 
>> impact rather a ramped up resistance easily surpassing several hundred 
>> pounds of force.(It's like dropping a 200 or 300 rock on your leg, arm, or 
>> hand).  IOW, The drill bit can become very dangerous.  Those who are not 
>> familiar with what can and likely will happen, believe they can hold it.  
>> I've had a drill grab while enlarging the hole on center. Thankfully it 
>> burned up the motor on the largest Dewalt 1/2" drill motor Lowe's sells 
>> before it did anything serious to me. I thought I could hold one until then.
>> 
>> Example:  I know an electrician who had the cord get wrapped around his 
>> hand. When the drill grabbed, it pulled his thumb out, separating the thumb 
>> from his hand completely.  He had to climb down 3 stories on steel ladders 
>> after the incident.
>> 
>> I can't emphasize how dangerous Redrilling a large bolt hole, "off center" 
>> can be. There are only two safe ways to do it. One is with a milling 
>> machine, or a cutting torch (Plasma, or Ox-Acetylene). There is a third way 
>> using a heavy duty, high speed grinder using a carbide bit or a heavy duty 
>> abrasive grinding bit and not the cheap ones.   Colors indicate hardness.   
>> Pink is soft and for finishing. Dark gray is for harder metals and better 
>> for hogging out steel metal plates , like 3/4" metal plates.  I use carbide 
>> bits and abrasive grinding bits rated for 40,000 RPM.  40,000 is not a 
>> misprint.  Typical big box and hardware store bits are rated at 5,000 RPM 
>> and are very likely to explode in a real high speed grinder or die grinder.
>> 
>> Always wear a full face shield and safety glasses with side shields with 
>> this kind of equipment..  Safety goggles, or safety glasses with side 
>> shields by themselves are not considered sufficient.  As I have to rely on 
>> experienced volunteers, I'm sometimes reluctant to insist on the full face 
>> shield
>> 
>> The strong magnetic brace becomes a necessity, but are not guaranteed to 
>> hold a bit that has grabbed when "trying to drill off center.. OTOH they 
>> GENERALLY  do tend to only kick to the center of the hole and allow you to 
>> let go of the trigger.  As I've said before, it can be almost impossible to 
>> let go of the trigger on a hand held drill motor  that is grabbing, or has 
>> grabbed.  They are dangerous on a drill press, and far worse on a portable 
>> setup.
>> 
>> By the far the safest and bet is an end mill of the proper size. 
>> Unfortunately, I've never seen one with a smaller shank to fit a drill motor 
>> or drill press.  The end mill, fed slowly, with a water based lube spray is 
>> almost a necessity and  they give a very clean hole of the proper size.  
>> Never, ever try to use one, hand held.  They are expensive and need a rigid 
>> hold as with a milling machine.  The shank, or quill on even an expensive 
>> drill press is just too flexible.  There is a reason the larger end mills 
>> are gripped with a collet of the same size.
>> 
>> If you can find some one ( or a shop you trust) with a milling machine that 
>> will tackle the job, it's a very simple setup and easy to do.  It's helpful 
>> to have the plate setup of the proper orientation, but as you are using the 
>> mill as a drill press, with the plate "tightly clamped", it's not necessary. 
>>  However many shops do not like to do this kind of work.  Never suggest 
>> "only a drill bit will do the work!".  It tells them you do not know the 
>> dangers you are suggesting or want them to do something dangerous.  Depend 
>> on them for the proper equipment to use.    The drill bit usually won't and 
>> is usually very dangerous to boot.  A complete set of 2-flute and 4-flute 
>> end mills, plus ball end mills males a set or top quality drill bits look 
>> cheap! Add to the the need for a required set of collets
>> 
>> I have a old, big Bridgeport Mill.  The head needs to be rebuilt as the key 
>> has been sheared, probably from just such an operation and why It was so 
>> cheap. A mill with a keyless chuck is the best drill press you can find.  A 
>> ball end mill makes a very good, but expensive drill bit.
>> 
>> BTW You can purchase a gallon jug of lubricant to mix with water from most 
>> any industrial supply house and use it in a little hand held spray bottle.  
>> There are also spray bottles fat last a long time and many small jobs.
>> http://www.grizzly.com/products/Accu-Lube-Pump-Spray-Lubricant/H9239
>> I'm just a customer, have no interest in the company.
>> 
>> Proper lubricants will make the use easier, while bits, taps, and saw blades 
>> last much longer.
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> Roger (K8RI)
>> 
>> 
>> On 9/7/2015 2:33 PM, Rich Hallman - N7TR wrote:
>>> I had a ¾ inch steel plate made up that will be used to retrofit a HDX589 
>>> base foundation to a HDX572 base.   After giving both bases to the machine 
>>> shop and asking them to make sure all of the holes are exactly the same 
>>> location as the base, some of the holes are 1/8 to ¼ inch off.   I had a 
>>> major issue with this machine shop so I will not take it back for now.
>>> 
>>> I wanted to see what others have done to grind out holes in thick steel 
>>> plate.
>>> 
>>> I was looking at the Carbide Burr bits and getting a ¾ inch burr bit to see 
>>> if that would grid enough from the hole so it would then fit the bases.
>>> 
>>> The holes are pretty close....so I thought grinding them out would be the 
>>> best solution for now.
>>> 
>>> Any thoughts?
>>> 
>>> Thanks....Rich
>>> 
>>> Rich N7TR
>>> ex KI3V, N3AMK, WB3JOV
>>> www.n7tr.com<http://www.n7tr.com>
>>> http://www.qrz.com/db/N7TR
>>> Telnet: dxc.n7tr.com N7TR DXCluster
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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