Towertalk
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [TowerTalk] More balun advice

To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] More balun advice
From: "Earl Morse" <kz8e@wtd.net>
Reply-to: kz8e@wtd.net
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 08:59:04 -0800
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Mea culpa.

These observations were for a transmission line transformer.  Specifically, a 
4:1 200:50 ohm Guanella design with one side of the 200 ohm output grounded to 
make it a 4:1 unun.

The designs were very wideband.  100 kHz to as high as I could get them to go 
(not all TLTs are used exclusively in the ham bands).  The power levels were 
10kW (not all TLTs are used with amateur power levels, though there are 
probably some amateur band TLTs that see more than this).  They were for a 
one-time development test so I built them with what I had laying around the 
lab.  That limited my choice of core material.  I built 4 of them with 
different cores, coaxial versus parallel transmission lines, etc.  One arced 
over and burned during testing (apparently multiple layers of shrink tube 
aren't as good as teflon when it comes to making your own parallel wire 
transmission line).

Performance was flat across 100 kHz to over 20 MHz where the mentioned 
resonance starts to creep in.  

Since most hams won't be striving for that extra decade of frequency below 1.8 
MHz a similar design that has enough choking impedance at 1.8 MHz would 
probably work all the way through the HF spectrum.

I thought I had taken better notes on this but as I pore over them now I have 
more questions that must have seemed obvious 2 years ago when I did this.  If 
old age memory is anything like traumatic brain injury memory loss then old age 
is gonna suck. 

Earl
N8SS


---------------------

At my age, I've not kept up with the theory and forgotten much of what I used 
to teach from lack of use. I hope I phrase this correctly. I think your 
tutorial would make good reading for those entering into this discussion and 
label which type of balun is being described. 


The way I interpret what he wrote (with my basic understanding of the subject), 
is similar to what you have said about SWR. The balun does not change the 
characteristics of the antenna, but rather what the feed line and rig see. His 
remarks do not seem to apply to a choke which is all many antennas now use, 
such as (many, most, or all) of the Force 12 family, but rather the voltage 
baluns which are usually transformers, either auto, or isolation. The preferred 
baluns shown are the so called bead baluns (or open chokes as in your tutorial) 
which do not act as resonant circuits over their operating range, but rather as 
a fixed resistor, or inductor for common voltage, but do not affect 
differential voltage (the signal). Ideally the maximum and desired isolation 
can be around 5000 ohms for common mode voltages / signals at the desired 
operating frequency. Useful isolation is available over an octave, depending on 
what is needed. There, because of the generic use of the term, "ba
 lun", I think it becomes confusing and only applicable to a subset of baluns? 


The choke appears to be unbalanced to unbalanced, but it can offer enough 
common mode rejection to appear to work well as a true balanced (the antenna) 
to unbalanced (the feed line) balun. 


I disagree with his # of turns analysis as with the chokes more turns and 
increased inter turn capacity lowers the frequency of maximum isolation at the 
expense of higher frequency isolation, but that isolation still covers a wide 
range,. I believe the curves in your tutorial demonstrate this with no 
resonances involved within the operating range of the choke. The isolation just 
drops off as I understand it. 


What he says might possibly be attributed to transformer / voltage baluns which 
could / might have have high frequency resonances. With out attributing 
characteristics to a particular type of balun, it does become confusing. When a 
specific term like "balun" becomes generic the use and meaning can often become 
muddied. 


A choke is a choke, is a choke. It is not normally resonant as we use them. It 
has a wide frequency range of relatively high isolation that tapers off in both 
directions outside of its designed range as I understand it. 

73

Roger  (K8RI)


 On 11/13/2015 3:38 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Thu,11/12/2015 10:07 AM, Earl Morse wrote:


The first problem is that the word "balun" is used to describe at least a dozen 
very different things. Thus, one or more of the answers below sort of make 
sense for one of those things but not for the other things. 


That said, most of what is written below makes no sense to me for any of those 
"things." 

73, Jim K9YC


The antenna impedance won't change, it will still look like a typical dipole 
with or without the balun. 


The balun will act like a transformer over a fixed set of frequencies depending 
on core material, # of turns, and inter-winding capacitance. The high frequency 
limit would be determined by core material and inter-winding capacitance and 
the low frequency by the core material and # of turns. 


# of turns and inter-winding capactance are mutually exclusive meaning that for 
the improvement you get at lower frequencies by adding more turns you will lose 
at the higher frequencies due to the increase in inter-winding capacitance. 


A typical balun when terminated in its design load impedance would show less 
than 50 ohms at the low end of its frequency range, maintain 50 ohms through 
its usable frequency range, then go high when it hits its self resonant 
frequency at the high end of its usefulness. 

---------------------------------------
_______________________________________________



_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>