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Re: [TowerTalk] Pulling coax through PVC pipe

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Pulling coax through PVC pipe
From: Patrick Greenlee <patrick_g@windstream.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 07:54:35 -0600
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Different strokes... Some, like Chick, vent underground conduit to the surface air, others put drain holes in the underside, some try to seal it up (with or without desiccant), others purge with "dry" air intermittently or warm dry air continuously, others may get good results doing nothing extra, and so on and so forth  A N D  most say "it works for me." There probably is no single best answer, certainly with the wide variety of climates.  In some places if you tried drain holes the ground water would flood your conduit.  Some places venting to surface air will allow condensation in the vent pipes as temps and RH go through the diurnal cycle adding water to your buried conduit over time.

If the conduit is sealed well one of the few ways for moisture to gain entry is via poorly sealed coax.  Moisture can egress via the shield of improperly sealed coax. I did nothing "heroic", just installed my various PVC conduits with plenty glue, a twist, and hold fully engaged for 30 sec to get a proper glued joint.  When going back to a previously wired conduit to add more wires I never detected any moisture. I guess I'm lucky to be fortunate enough to have benighn conditions that don't require special amelioration.

One glaring oops in my conduit experiences is the last 4 inch S&D run which is a minor embarrassment in that during backfilling I got lazy and too hurried in backfilling and ended up with rocks and large hard clods in the backfill against the conduit which when driven over damaged the conduit. How do I know the conduit was damaged? Ground water entered the conduit which was on a slope which made a considerable head of pressure and over flowed the terminal end of the conduit which was 2 ft above my barn floor. Water poured out onto the slab at a rate of several gallons per minute.  I used a cordless 4 1/2 inch angle grinder to cut a relief hole just above grade outside of the building so the water stays out side the building.

Now what to do to salvage the situation, preferably without replacing the conduit.  Local big box stores sell rolls of 1" flexible irrigation pipe rated at 100PSI for $12.  I pulled my wires and cables into some of these, sealed the ends super water tight and then pulled those through the flooded conduit.

My cables are still in the PVC conduit and so protected from the evil cable munching critters we have that delight in chewing on direct bury cables  A N D  they are protected from water up to 100 PSI (not likely to  be a problem.) The best part was not digging up and replacing the conduit.  A side benefit is that additional wires could be placed inside another run of 1 inch irrigation tubing and easily pulled along current cables as the irrigation tubing gives you a smooth non-snagging pulling experience.

Hopefully none of you TowerTalkers will need to use my remedy but there it is, just in case.

Patrick        NJ5G


On 1/30/2018 4:02 PM, Chick Allen via TowerTalk wrote:
One thing to consider that will mitigate the "wet location" issue is to vent the conduit with some vents installed along the 
conduit.  This is done using a simple pvc "tee".  If you're using 2" pvc, just connect the lengths at several different 
points with a 2"x2"x2" tee, reduce the vertical tee to something smaller, like 1" or 3/4" and bring that about one 
foot above the ground.  There you can add a sweep el that will prevent moisture from entering the conduit while allowing condensation to 
evaporate.  Plan your above ground vents around a fence post or some other above ground object so it won't get broken as easily.  
Otherwise, a short piece of treated 4"x4" will provide a stable support.  Works for me.

73 de Chick / NW3Y



-----Original Message-----
From: Shane Youhouse <kd6vxi@gmail.com>
To: towertalk <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 30, 2018 2:34 pm
Subject: [TowerTalk] Pulling coax through PVC pipe

I wouldn't be so quick to run ANY romex through PVC when it's buried.  It's
against code.

Article 300 of the NEC states any buried pipe is considered a wet location.

*300.5 Underground Installations.*
*(B) Wet Locations.* The interior of enclosures or raceways installed
underground shall be considered to be a wet location. Insulated conductors
and cables installed in these enclosures or raceways in underground
installations shall be listed for use in wet locations and shall comply
with 310.10(C). Any connections or splices in an underground installation
shall be approved for wet locations.

Then, article 334 implicitly states you may NOT use romex (NM) in damp
locations.

*334.12 Uses Not Permitted.*
*(B) Types NM and NMS*. Types NM and NMS cables shall not be used under the
following conditions or in the following locations:

(4) In wet or damp locations

As such, you are MUCH better off running single runs of wire in addition to
a heavy ground to keep SPG intact

There are a LOT more rules regarding NM style wiring, but this is the gist.

Also, it's not always wrong to mix 120 volt and low voltage.  As long as
you use THHN or other 600 volt insulation and all wiring is class 1, you're
OK.

--Shane
KD6VXI
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