[AMPS] Re: Poor Science

Terry Gaiser - W6RU w6ru@lightspeed.net
Sun, 5 Mar 2000 20:48:06 -0800


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Tom.......

>>Hi Terry,

>>Most people have names. If you are addressing me, use my name=20
>>and I will answer.

>>I wouldn't call you Mr. Sucker, and in return I don't expect to be=20
>>called Mr. Denial.

LOL

> I really question why I am wasting my time with this ... I hope this =
will
> be of interest to some ... I am sure Mr. Denial will  just consider it
> nonsense as he has with most all of Rich's claims ... But this is from =
the
> real world of what actually happens ....
>=20
> The amplifier was in STANDBY ..... NOT KEYED .... but with all =
voltages ON
> ! I had a reason to remove the top cover (high voltage interlock =
removed),
> I slowly raised the cover from the front of the amplifier leaving the =
rear
> of the cover sitting on the amplifier ... when I got the front of the
> cover raised about 3 inches ... all of a sudden the amp made this huge =
big
> grunt and the circuit breaker tripped off. After I removed the top =
cover
> and turned the amp back on I had idling plate current in the standby =
mode.
> Long story short ... I had one of the two 3-500Z's with a grid to =
filament
> short and that tube had metal particles rolling around inside of it. =
Ten
> minutes earlier this amp was putting out 1300 watts on 20 meters. NOT
> knowing what had happened I replaced the bad tube and tried again. =
Guess
> what ... with the cover about 3 inches raised ... yes ... I lost =
another
> 3-500Z ! This was a damn expensive way of being introduced to the type =
of
> oscillation that Mr. Denial says can't happen !

>>The theory you are supporting is Rich's claim that a photon can=20
>>strike the cathode of a tube that is on standby, and cause enough=20
>>current flow to arc over the relay contacts and put the amplifier in=20
>>an operating mode.

>>Once in the operating mode from the wayward photon, the amplifier=20
>>that was OK for weeks or moths before (with the very same relay=20
>>closed and opened hundreds of times) now suddenly has a=20
>>parasitic and draws so much current it actually explodes the=20
>>elements inside the tube.

You asked for an example ... I gave you one that repeated itself.
I am curious as to why I had to replace two 3-500z"s. The way the =
amplifier made a huge grunt and tripped the breaker ... with the =
3-500Z's shorting and pieces of either filament or grid being loose in =
the tube tells me something violent happened. And since it occurred =
while moving the top cover in relation to the tubes and tank circuit, =
leads me to believe it was an oscillation. What is your expert =
explanation please ?

>>I'd like to ask a few questions:

>>1.) What type of amplifier was it.

Henry 2K-4

>>2.) What type of tubes.

HELLO !!!  Already stated.

>>3.) Why don't the photons generated in normal operation cause the=20
>>same problem?

You asking me ?

>>4.) Why don't photons in gas-filled tubes specifically designed to=20
>>detect photons have even modest amounts of current?

>>5.) Why do hundreds of other amplifiers without covers not fail?

??? Has nothing to do with what I stated.

>>6.) Since the saturated current of a 3-500Z is about 10 amperes or=20
>>so (that's all the filament can "give up", even if you hold the anode=20
>>and grid at 3000 volts positive), how does the oscillation cause=20
>>enough current to shatter the filament or grid?

I would really like to know what shattered mine.

>>7.) If the tube could supply that much current, how does it get that=20
>>current so fast through the high surge impedance of the path from=20
>>the energy storage area (power supply) into the tube?

Good question ... but in this case as I recall there is no current =
limiting in the B+ or B- of the HV supply.


>>If you have no explanation other than blind faith, then I can accept=20
>>that and respect it. I never argue religion.

I have no explanation, only suspect.

>>73, Tom W8JI

Terry W6RU

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom.......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;&gt;Hi Terry,<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Most =
people have=20
names. If you are addressing me, use my name <BR>&gt;&gt;and I will=20
answer.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;I wouldn't call you Mr. Sucker, and in return I =
don't=20
expect to be <BR>&gt;&gt;called Mr. Denial.<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>LOL</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>&gt; I really question why I am =
wasting my time=20
with this ... I hope this will<BR>&gt; be of interest to some ... I am =
sure Mr.=20
Denial will  just consider it<BR>&gt; nonsense as he has with most all =
of Rich's=20
claims ... But this is from the<BR>&gt; real world of what actually =
happens=20
....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The amplifier was in STANDBY ..... NOT KEYED .... =
but with=20
all voltages ON<BR>&gt; ! I had a reason to remove the top cover (high =
voltage=20
interlock removed),<BR>&gt; I slowly raised the cover from the front of =
the=20
amplifier leaving the rear<BR>&gt; of the cover sitting on the amplifier =
...=20
when I got the front of the<BR>&gt; cover raised about 3 inches ... all =
of a=20
sudden the amp made this huge big<BR>&gt; grunt and the circuit breaker =
tripped=20
off. After I removed the top cover<BR>&gt; and turned the amp back on I =
had=20
idling plate current in the standby mode.<BR>&gt; Long story short ... I =
had one=20
of the two 3-500Z's with a grid to filament<BR>&gt; short and that tube =
had=20
metal particles rolling around inside of it. Ten<BR>&gt; minutes earlier =
this=20
amp was putting out 1300 watts on 20 meters. NOT<BR>&gt; knowing what =
had=20
happened I replaced the bad tube and tried again. Guess<BR>&gt; what ... =
with=20
the cover about 3 inches raised ... yes ... I lost another<BR>&gt; =
3-500Z ! This=20
was a damn expensive way of being introduced to the type of<BR>&gt; =
oscillation=20
that Mr. Denial says can't happen !<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;The theory you are =
supporting=20
is Rich's claim that a photon can <BR>&gt;&gt;strike the cathode of a =
tube that=20
is on standby, and cause enough <BR>&gt;&gt;current flow to arc over the =
relay=20
contacts and put the amplifier in <BR>&gt;&gt;an operating=20
mode.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Once in the operating mode from the wayward photon, =
the=20
amplifier <BR>&gt;&gt;that was OK for weeks or moths before (with the =
very same=20
relay <BR>&gt;&gt;closed and opened hundreds of times) now suddenly has =
a=20
<BR>&gt;&gt;parasitic and draws so much current it actually explodes the =

<BR>&gt;&gt;elements inside the tube.<BR><BR>You asked for an example =
... I gave=20
you one that repeated itself.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am curious as to why I had to replace =
two=20
3-500z"s. The way the amplifier made a huge grunt and tripped the =
breaker ...=20
with the 3-500Z's shorting and&nbsp;pieces of either filament or grid =
being=20
loose in the tube tells me something violent happened. And since it =
occurred=20
while moving the top cover in relation to the tubes and tank circuit, =
leads me=20
to believe it was an oscillation. What is your expert explanation please =

?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;&gt;I'd like to ask a few=20
questions:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;1.) What type of amplifier was =
it.<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Henry 2K-4</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>&gt;&gt;2.) What type of=20
tubes.<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>HELLO !!!&nbsp; Already =
stated.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>&gt;&gt;3.) Why don't the photons =
generated in=20
normal operation cause the <BR>&gt;&gt;same problem?<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You asking me ?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>&gt;&gt;4.) Why don't photons in =
gas-filled=20
tubes specifically designed to <BR>&gt;&gt;detect photons have even =
modest=20
amounts of current?<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;5.) Why do hundreds of other =
amplifiers=20
without covers not fail?<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>??? Has nothing to do with what I=20
stated.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;&gt;6.) Since the saturated current =
of a 3-500Z=20
is about 10 amperes or <BR>&gt;&gt;so (that's all the filament can "give =
up",=20
even if you hold the anode <BR>&gt;&gt;and grid at 3000 volts positive), =
how=20
does the oscillation cause <BR>&gt;&gt;enough current to shatter the =
filament or=20
grid?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I would really like to know what =
shattered=20
mine.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;7.) If the tube could supply that much current, how =
does it=20
get that <BR>&gt;&gt;current so fast through the high surge impedance of =
the=20
path from <BR>&gt;&gt;the energy storage area (power supply) into the=20
tube?<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good question ... but in this case as I =
recall=20
there is no current limiting in the B+ or B- of the HV =
supply.<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;&gt;If you have no explanation =
other than blind=20
faith, then I can accept <BR>&gt;&gt;that and respect it. I never argue=20
religion.<BR><BR>I have no explanation, only suspect.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;&gt;73, Tom W8JI<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Terry W6RU</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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