[AMPS] Making PC boards/Silkscreen
carl seyersdahl
carlseye@tampabay.rr.com
Tue, 17 Jul 2001 08:48:31 -0400
Billy: here's another one for you!! I asked several chemical supply houses
about ammonium hydroxide, they all said they don't know what it is , so I
looked it up in the dictionary and it says simply"ammonia mixed with water".
I would assume from that that one could buy ammonia and mix it and use it
in your etching solution. I also made some calls and found a source of both
35 and 50 % hydrogen peroxide, so I'll try the new solution maybe later
today. 73 for now.
carl / kz5ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Billy Ward" <billydeanward@hotmail.com>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [AMPS] Making PC boards/Silkscreen
>
> I am sorry that you did not catch any of my posts that explained the
> strength that is necessary to work properly. It must be 30-50% which is
> available through chemical warehouses--usually in 15-30 gallons which is
too
> much for most folks--and at beauty supply houses as strong as 30%. I used
to
> get the 50% from a company that bleached NEW blue jeans to market as
"faded
> denim". That was in Little Rock, Arkansas. When I lived in Turlock,
> California, I used to get it from Janitorial supplies in
Modesto,California.
>
> I am going to investigate the laws concerning the shipping and handling of
> the chemicals used in my method with the idea of selling them and shipping
> them to my customers. I am totally unaware of the severity of the
> regulations involved.
>
> If anyone knows where I should start to find out that kind of information
> with the highest degree of accuracy please let me know.
>
> I know that this is not an amp post but I have received many emails from
> this group in private email so I hope you don't mind me answering these
most
> often asked questions.
>
> http://pcboards.topcities.com/home.html
>
>
> >From: "carl seyersdahl" <carlseye@tampabay.rr.com>
> >To: "Billy Ward" <billydeanward@hotmail.com>, <amps@contesting.com>
> >Subject: Re: [AMPS] Making PC boards/Silkscreen
> >Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:00:56 -0400
> >
> >
> >Billy: In my "for what it's worth " dept, I brewed up some of your
etching
> >solution with what I could get and it didn't work. the h2o2 from the
stores
> >is undoubtedly way to weak (3%) I'll go look for some better stuff in the
> >next few days and see what I can do. Ispent 45 minutes watching the stuff
> >just now with a small piece of pc board 1.5 in. sq. mol.So much for that
> >!!!comments from others tells me the peroxide was the problem. Oh, well,
> >tomorrow is another day. 73 for now.
> > carl / kz5ca
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Billy Ward" <billydeanward@hotmail.com>
> >To: <amps@contesting.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 8:29 PM
> >Subject: Re: [AMPS] Making PC boards/Silkscreen
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Here is the link to my new pc board site but there is no information
> >there
> > > as of yet. Any critique will be appreciated--I need ideas as to what
> >else
> > > to include.
> > >
> > > http://pcboards.topcities.com/home.html
> > >
> > > Billy Dean Ward
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "carl seyersdahl" <carlseye@tampabay.rr.com>
> > > >To: "Billy Ward" <billydeanward@hotmail.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [AMPS] Making PC boards/Silkscreen
> > > >Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:59:03 -0400
> > > >
> > > >Billy: I just read your msg. on h2o2, etc. I went and looked at a
> >bottle
> >of
> > > >the stuff in the medicine cabinet, and it isn't marked as to the % of
> > > >strength. It's from Publix supermarket here locally. At least now I
> >know
> > > >what to look for or ask for. I wasn't aware of the the stuff being
> >diluted,
> > > >altho I guess I should. I seem to remember something about that stuff
> >when
> > > >I
> > > >was younger(long time ago!!!)
> > > > add me to your list of interested people!!! 73
> > > > carl / kz5ca
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Billy Ward" <billydeanward@hotmail.com>
> > > >To: <amps@contesting.com>
> > > >Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:30 PM
> > > >Subject: Re: [AMPS] Making PC boards/Silkscreen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have received a LOT of personal email from those that are
> >interested
> > > >in
> > > > > making quality pc boards "in the kitchen" and "the back yard". As
a
> > > >result,
> > > > > I am in the process of starting a website dedicated to that cause
> >and
> > > >will
> > > > > most likely be offering some of the necessary "ingredients". I
doubt
> > > >that
> > > >I
> > > > > will offer the acid and the H2O2 because of the problems
associated
> >with
> > > > > shipping chemicals.
> > > > >
> > > > > Most Of the questions have been about these two products. The
H2O2
> > > >should
> > > > > be as strong as you can get. I use 50% when I can get it. For
those
> >of
> > > >you
> > > > > in the larger cities--one source was from a company that
> >manufactures
> > > >faded
> > > > > jeans. If you will contact a chemical company in your area, you
can
> > > >usually
> > > > > presuade them to give you one of their customers that buys in
> >volumne
> >so
> > > > > that you may go to them and convince them to sell you a small
> >quantity.
> > > >The
> > > > > beauty shops have atleast 30% which will work but at a slower
rate.
> > > > >
> > > > > The HCL is the common muratic acid that you get at building supply
> > > >stores
> > > >or
> > > > > swimming pool supplies.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a site now for this but it has no information on it. I will
> >getup
> > > >a
> > > > > page or two and post the URL.
> > > > >
> > > > > Billy Dean Ward
> > > > >
> > > > > Billy Dean Ward
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Mike Baker" <k7dd@qwest.net>
> > > > > >To: "Billy Ward" <billydeanward@hotmail.com>
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [AMPS] Making PC boards/Silkscreen
> > > > > >Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 08:05:13 -0700
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Hello Billy,
> > > > > > Well, add my name to the list of folks interested in your
> >method.
> > > >I
> > > > > >haven't done PC boards in years because I hated the BS or waiting
> >for
> > > >the
> > > > > >board to etch or having it clean off the board because the resist
> > > >wasn't
> > > > > >all that good, etc. If I could make professional looking boards
in
> >my
> > > >back
> > > > > >yard I would be interested.
> > > > > > BTW, I know where to get the Acid (pool acid) locally but
H2O2
> > > >that
> > > > > >you get at the drug store is only 1 or 2 percent at most. Even
the
> > > >type
> > > > > >use by hair dressers is only maybe 5% and high percentage stuff
is
> > > >toxic
> > > > > >and dangerous (the germans used it as the oxidizer in the ME262
> >rocket
> > > > > >plane in WW2 !! ) so please clairfy if you will.
> > > > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > > >Mike Baker K7DD
> > > > > >k7dd@qwest.net
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Billy Ward
> > > > > > To: amps@contesting.com
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 4:04 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [AMPS] Making PC boards/Silkscreen
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greetings Carl,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It would probably take over an hour to author a letter telling
> > > >exactly
> > > > > >how to do the silkscreen method of making PC boards. However, if
> >there
> > > >are
> > > > > >enough in the group that would be interested in learning how, I
> >could
> > > >take
> > > > > >the time to write about it Many years ago, I did a demo for a Ham
> >Radio
> > > > > >Club where I started with the tape-up layout and produced a
> >finished
> > > >etched
> > > > > >and cleaned ready-to-use 4" X 6" board in 16 minutes flat.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am planning a website devoted to that task in the near
> > > >furture--say
> > > >by
> > > > > >Fall. At that time, I am going to be offering all of the supplys
> > > >necessary
> > > > > >for the job. Interest shown by this group might be somewhat of a
> > > >measure
> > > >of
> > > > > >whether I should continue with my plans.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I will tell you that the ferric chloride method is something
> >that
> > > >you
> > > > > >will throw rocks at when you learn about the etchant that I use.
> >It
> > > >has
> > > >a
> > > > > >couple of requirements that must be strictly adherred to and
other
> >than
> > > > > >that it is superior to any methods that I have come across:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It must be well ventilated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > > > > It must not get too hot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The following solution requires NO heating, NO bubbling, No
> > > >agitation!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1-part H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide)
> > > > > > 1-part Muratic acid (Hydrochloric Acid)
> > > > > > 8-parts H2O (water)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The boards are suspended in the solution and the reaction
causes
> >a
> > > > > >thermogenic reaction and heats the solution. It must not get
above
> >155
> > > >F
> > > > > >or it will boil out of the etching tank--even if it is tall.
> >Adding
> >a
> > > >cup
> > > > > >of Amonium Hydroxide will raise the danger point to about 187 F
> >which
> > > >is
> > > > > >easier to work with.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But if you get your hands in the solution a transdermal thing
> >will
> > > > > >happen and eventually you will have Amonium
> > > > > > Chloride (from the Amonium Hydroxide reacted with Hydrochloric
> >Acid)
> > > > > >get into your urine and you'll flunk a U/A for methamphetamine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In a fresh solution that used gallons as the measurements=10
> >gallons
> > > > > >total, I could etch 24 4" X 6" single-sided, 2-OZ
> > > > > > boards in 3 minutes and 20 seconds.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To refresh the solution, add H202!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Billy Dean Ward
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: carl seyersdahl
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 12:21 PM
> > > > > > To: Billy Ward; amps@contesting.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AMPS] Making tubes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not exactly crazy about making my own tubes, but I do
like
> >to
> > > >make
> > > > > >a pc board now and then. Can you tell me where I can get info on
> >the
> > > > > >'silkscreen " method making pc boards. It would likely be a big
> > > >improvement
> > > > > >over what I've been doing with a magic marker and ferric
chloride.
> > > >thanks
> > > > > > carl / kz5ca
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Billy Ward
> > > > > > To: amps@contesting.com
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 2:06 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [AMPS] Making tubes
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greetings Group,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I will ask this question at the chance of being made to
look
> > > > > >ignorant!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With the high price of tubes, I wonder if anyone has ever
> > > >invisioned
> > > > > >a homebrew project to actually make the tube from scratch? I
know
> >that
> > > >it
> > > > > >would be a little more than the average ham is used to working
with
> >but
> > > >why
> > > > > >could we not use something such as stainless steel tubing and
come
> >up
> > > >with
> > > > > >a decent power transmitting tube. After all, someone once did
> >that!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We all know approximately what is needed and some of the
> >group,
> > > >I
> > > >am
> > > > > >sure, may have worked for places such as Eimac etc. and have a
lot
> >of
> > > > > >knowledge of what goes into such a task.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sometimes things like this is MUCH more difficult than
meets
> >the
> > > >eye
> > > > > >and on the other hand, some things are dirt simple and just
appear
> >to
> > > >be
> > > > > >difficult. Like making pc boards from scratch--some would not
> >think
> >of
> > > >it
> > > > > >and others like me can turn one out from drawing to board in
30-45
> > > >minutes
> > > > > >using the silk-screen method at the kitchen sink.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Billy Dean Ward
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
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