[Amps] RE: Amps Digest, Vol 3, Issue 60

Sun Mar 16 09:21:08 EST 2003

,

,
>  I've also found out my senator, Olympia Snow is on the tele-
,
,.
@Report it Roger and let the officials do there jobs.
@I think we called guys like you Deputy Dogs or Barney Fifes.
@God Speed to Our Troops, I back them and Our President all the way.  @God
Bless America and to hell with Sadam Hussein and people like you Roger who
blame everything on Someone else and are always looking for some other
way to get government into our lives. at Wake up man..........We don't want
government into everything we do.

By the sound of it, you did not read this one :

IHT: Norman Mailer: Gaining an empire, losing democracy?

        Norman Mailer Tribune Media Services Tuesday, February 25, 2003
Iraq is an excuse

LOS ANGELES There is a subtext to what the Bushites are doing as they prepare
for war in Iraq. My hypothesis is that President George W. Bush and many
conservatives have come to the conclusion that the only way they can save
America and get if off its present downslope is to become a regime with a
greater military presence and drive toward empire. My fear is that Americans
might lose their democracy in the process.
.
By downslope I'm referring not only to the corporate scandals, the church
scandals and the FBI scandals. The country has gone kind of crazy in the eyes
of
conservatives. Also, kids can't read anymore. Especially for conservatives,
the
culture has become too sexual.
.
Iraq is the excuse for moving in an imperial direction. War with Iraq, as they
originally conceived it, would be a quick, dramatic step that would enable
them
to control the Near East as a powerful base - not least because of the oil
there, as well as the water supplies from the Tigris and Euphrates rivers - to
build a world empire.
.
The Bushites also expect to bring democracy to the region and believe that in
itself will help to diminish terrorism. But I expect the opposite will happen:
terrorists are not impressed by democracy. They loathe it. They are
fundamentalists of the most basic kind. The more successful democracy is in
the
Near East - not likely in my view - the more terrorism it will generate.
.
The only outstanding obstacle to the drive toward empire in the Bushites'
minds
is China. Indeed, one of the great fears in the Bush administration about
America's downslope is that the "stem studies" such as science, technology and
engineering are all faring poorly in U.S. universities. The number of American
doctorates is going down and down. But the number of Asians obtaining
doctorates
in those same stem studies are increasing at a great rate.
.
Looking 20 years ahead, the administration perceives that there will come a
time
when China will have technology superior to America's. When that time comes,
America might well say to China that "we can work together," we will be as the
Romans to you Greeks. You will be our extraordinary, well-cultivated slaves.
But
don't try to dominate us. That would be your disaster. This is the scenario
that
some of the brightest neoconservatives are thinking about. (I use Rome as a
metaphor, because metaphors are usually much closer to the truth than facts).
.
What has happened, of course, is that the Bushites have run into much more
opposition than they thought they would from other countries and among the
home
population. It may well end up that we won't have a war, but a new strategy to
contain Iraq and wear Saddam down. If that occurs, Bush is in terrible
trouble.
.
My guess though, is that, like it or not, want it or not, America is going to
go
to war because that is the only solution Bush and his people can see.
.
The dire prospect that opens, therefore, is that America is going to become a
mega-banana republic where the army will have more and more importance in
Americans' lives. It will be an ever greater and greater overlay on the
American
system. And before it is all over, democracy, noble and delicate as it is, may
give way. My long experience with human nature - I'm 80 years old now -
suggests
that it is possible that fascism, not democracy, is the natural state.
.
Indeed, democracy is the special condition - a condition we will be called
upon
to defend in the coming years. That will be enormously difficult because the
combination of the corporation, the military and the complete investiture of
the
flag with mass spectator sports has set up a pre-fascistic atmosphere in
America
already.
.
Norman Mailer's latest book is "The Spooky Art: Some Thoughts on Writing."
This
comment was adapted from remarks Feb. 22 to the Los Angeles Institute for the
Humanities and distributed by Global Viewpoint/Tribune Media Services
International.

< < Back to Start of Article Iraq is an excuse

LOS ANGELES There is a subtext to what the Bushites are doing as they prepare
for war in Iraq. My hypothesis is that President George W. Bush and many
conservatives have come to the conclusion that the only way they can save
America and get if off its present downslope is to become a regime with a
greater military presence and drive toward empire. My fear is that Americans
might lose their democracy in the process.
.
By downslope I'm referring not only to the corporate scandals, the church
scandals and the FBI scandals. The country has gone kind of crazy in the eyes
of
conservatives. Also, kids can't read anymore. Especially for conservatives,
the
culture has become too sexual.
.
Iraq is the excuse for moving in an imperial direction. War with Iraq, as they
originally conceived it, would be a quick, dramatic step that would enable
them
to control the Near East as a powerful base - not least because of the oil
there, as well as the water supplies from the Tigris and Euphrates rivers - to
build a world empire.
.
The Bushites also expect to bring democracy to the region and believe that in
itself will help to diminish terrorism. But I expect the opposite will happen:
terrorists are not impressed by democracy. They loathe it. They are
fundamentalists of the most basic kind. The more successful democracy is in
the
Near East - not likely in my view - the more terrorism it will generate.
.
The only outstanding obstacle to the drive toward empire in the Bushites'
minds
is China. Indeed, one of the great fears in the Bush administration about
America's downslope is that the "stem studies" such as science, technology and
engineering are all faring poorly in U.S. universities. The number of American
doctorates is going down and down. But the number of Asians obtaining
doctorates
in those same stem studies are increasing at a great rate.
.
Looking 20 years ahead, the administration perceives that there will come a
time
when China will have technology superior to America's. When that time comes,
America might well say to China that "we can work together," we will be as the
Romans to you Greeks. You will be our extraordinary, well-cultivated slaves.
But
don't try to dominate us. That would be your disaster. This is the scenario
that
some of the brightest neoconservatives are thinking about. (I use Rome as a
metaphor, because metaphors are usually much closer to the truth than facts).
.
What has happened, of course, is that the Bushites have run into much more
opposition than they thought they would from other countries and among the
home
population. It may well end up that we won't have a war, but a new strategy to
contain Iraq and wear Saddam down. If that occurs, Bush is in terrible
trouble.
.
My guess though, is that, like it or not, want it or not, America is going to
go
to war because that is the only solution Bush and his people can see.
.
The dire prospect that opens, therefore, is that America is going to become a
mega-banana republic where the army will have more and more importance in
Americans' lives. It will be an ever greater and greater overlay on the
American
system. And before it is all over, democracy, noble and delicate as it is, may
give way. My long experience with human nature - I'm 80 years old now -
suggests
that it is possible that fascism, not democracy, is the natural state.
.
Indeed, democracy is the special condition - a condition we will be called
upon
to defend in the coming years. That will be enormously difficult because the
combination of the corporation, the military and the complete investiture of
the
flag with mass spectator sports has set up a pre-fascistic atmosphere in
America
already.
.
Norman Mailer's latest book is "The Spooky Art: Some Thoughts on Writing."
This
comment was adapted from remarks Feb. 22 to the Los Angeles Institute for the
Humanities and distributed by Global Viewpoint/Tribune Media Services
International. Iraq is an excuse

LOS ANGELES There is a subtext to what the Bushites are doing as they prepare
for war in Iraq. My hypothesis is that President George W. Bush and many
conservatives have come to the conclusion that the only way they can save
America and get if off its present downslope is to become a regime with a
greater military presence and drive toward empire. My fear is that Americans
might lose their democracy in the process.
.
By downslope I'm referring not only to the corporate scandals, the church
scandals and the FBI scandals. The country has gone kind of crazy in the eyes
of
conservatives. Also, kids can't read anymore. Especially for conservatives,
the
culture has become too sexual.
.
Iraq is the excuse for moving in an imperial direction. War with Iraq, as they
originally conceived it, would be a quick, dramatic step that would enable
them
to control the Near East as a powerful base - not least because of the oil
there, as well as the water supplies from the Tigris and Euphrates rivers - to
build a world empire.
.
The Bushites also expect to bring democracy to the region and believe that in
itself will help to diminish terrorism. But I expect the opposite will happen:
terrorists are not impressed by democracy. They loathe it. They are
fundamentalists of the most basic kind. The more successful democracy is in
the
Near East - not likely in my view - the more terrorism it will generate.
.
The only outstanding obstacle to the drive toward empire in the Bushites'
minds
is China. Indeed, one of the great fears in the Bush administration about
America's downslope is that the "stem studies" such as science, technology and
engineering are all faring poorly in U.S. universities. The number of American
doctorates is going down and down. But the number of Asians obtaining
doctorates
in those same stem studies are increasing at a great rate.
.
Looking 20 years ahead, the administration perceives that there will come a
time
when China will have technology superior to America's. When that time comes,
America might well say to China that "we can work together," we will be as the
Romans to you Greeks. You will be our extraordinary, well-cultivated slaves.
But
don't try to dominate us. That would be your disaster. This is the scenario
that
some of the brightest neoconservatives are thinking about. (I use Rome as a
metaphor, because metaphors are usually much closer to the truth than facts).
.
What has happened, of course, is that the Bushites have run into much more
opposition than they thought they would from other countries and among the
home
population. It may well end up that we won't have a war, but a new strategy to
contain Iraq and wear Saddam down. If that occurs, Bush is in terrible
trouble.
.
My guess though, is that, like it or not, want it or not, America is going to
go
to war because that is the only solution Bush and his people can see.
.
The dire prospect that opens, therefore, is that America is going to become a
mega-banana republic where the army will have more and more importance in
Americans' lives. It will be an ever greater and greater overlay on the
American
system. And before it is all over, democracy, noble and delicate as it is, may
give way. My long experience with human nature - I'm 80 years old now -
suggests
that it is possible that fascism, not democracy, is the natural state.
.
Indeed, democracy is the special condition - a condition we will be called
upon
to defend in the coming years. That will be enormously difficult because the
combination of the corporation, the military and the complete investiture of
the
flag with mass spectator sports has set up a pre-fascistic atmosphere in
America
already.
.
Norman Mailer's latest book is "The Spooky Art: Some Thoughts on Writing."
This
comment was adapted from remarks Feb. 22 to the Los Angeles Institute for the
Humanities and distributed by Global Viewpoint/Tribune Media Services
International.

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