[Amps] SB-220's, 3-500's, some history

Carl km1h at jeremy.mv.com
Fri Feb 6 19:56:23 EST 2009


I guess our experiences have been a bit different Lou.

At least on Ebay and if you use your PayPal balance or a credit card 
thru PayPal then the Absolutely No Return means Absolutely Nothing. All 
you do is file a Substantially Not As Described complaint and the money 
is immediately pulled from the sellers PayPal or bank account and held 
for the duration of the dispute. Ive yet to lose a penny from a 
dishonest seller on Ebay.

However I find that Eham and other ham venues are loaded with scammers; 
IMO hams are the worst crowd Ive ever had to deal with when it comes to 
buying. There they take a personal check or MO and disappear. At least 
on AMPS and a few other forums its well moderator and peer policed.  Ive 
been burnt a few times on Eham, etc and if it wasnt for a few hot rod 
forums I belong to I'd be SOL. With over 5000 members there is always a 
few guys ready to go knock on a door <G> and recover my money. (more big 
Grins)

Bad SB series bandswitches mean nothing if your converting to 6M and the 
big majority of the switches I find are in excellent condition. Those go 
immediately to Ebay as do the other parts, it helps defray the purchase 
price. Bad ones get new contacts and go the same path. Only a very, very 
few have melted rotors.

Harbach carries new output tank coil switch wafers and you also need a 
SB-200 or 220 donor if you're converting a stock 201, 221 or HL-2200 to 
include 10M. Since it is a standard Centralab/Electroswitch; replacement 
contacts are easy to come by at a hamfest or Ebay from a zillion 
sources.

Carl
KM1H


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <gudguyham at aol.com>
To: <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>; <amps at contesting.com>
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Amps] SB-220's, 3-500's, some history


> Carl et al, not an adervetisment by any means.? What prompted this 
> writing was the awareness of the insane prices that are being paid for 
> Sb-220 amps particularly on EBAY for these amps that many can't say 
> even work.? I have heard horror stories about those paying high prices 
> for even dead amps.? I just wanted to enlighten the newbies who I feel 
> are the ones pumping up the price on them and don't know the 
> pitfalls.? There "should" be more accountablity by the sellers of some 
> of this junk, but you will notice that most every amp on EBAY comes 
> with a disclaimer and a "all sales final" slogan.? There was a time 
> when a ham's "word" meant something, but not anymore.? EBAY is a 
> dumping grounds.? So I figured if buyers knew the pitfalls etc, they 
> might? be able to put the pressure on the sellers to assure them that 
> "at least" you might be getting an amp with a good bandswitch.? When 
> you consider the odds that you agreed with me on, there is good chance 
> one will get a bummer amp.? They can look clean as a whistle trust me, 
> but that band switch could be toast.? Fortunately for US Carl it 
> doesn't matter too much.? I have had better luck on the other buying 
> venues where seller responsiblity is at a higher standard, but I have 
> STILL been burned there too.? I haven't seen as many Drake L4 amps, 
> but I assure you I have seen more than most, and I have never seen a 
> bad band switch on an L4, L4B.? For use an an HF amp, I would take an 
> L4B over an Sb-220 any day especially in the used market.? You can 
> almost bet the band switch will be good on one of them, but I would 
> not bet the same on the Sb-220.? Please....DON'T ask me why the band 
> switch contacts go south, the pit bulls have argued this point for 
> decades, need I say more?? Suffice to say these are the facts 
> regardless of the causes.? Lou
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
> To: Gudguyham at aol.com; amps at contesting.com
> Sent: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 1:09 pm
> Subject: Re: [Amps] SB-220's, 3-500's, some history
>
>
> Nice advertisement Lou, business must be slow down there <G>?
> ?
> However with over 250 SB-220 family 6M conversions and many straight 
> repairs since the 60's I concur with 99% of the observations.?
> ?
> All the Amperex are graphite and I have a NIB pair of the Eimac 
> graphites in my tube collection as well as a pair of Russian prototype 
> 3-600Z's there were never released to market.....they didnt work very 
> well.?
> ?
> Meanwhile, back to work, finishing up a LK-800A 6M conversion.?
> ?
> Stay warm, I see global warming has frozen another elderly homeowner.?
> ?
> Carl?
> KM1H?
> ?
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Gudguyham at aol.com>?
> To: <amps at contesting.com>?
> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 8:33 AM?
> Subject: [Amps] SB-220's, 3-500's, some history?
> ?
>> Unlike many hams who could count on one hand how many SB-220 amps 
>> they > have?
>> owned in a life time, some have to go to their feet to keep score. > 
>> Well, I?
>> am now starting to count hairs on my head and thankfully I have not > 
>> experienced?
>> Alopecia quite yet. All kidding aside, I have had HUNDREDS of Sb-220 
>>  > amps?
>> though here on my bench in the last 12 years. I have also seen all > 
>> the sets?
>> of 3-500 tubes that were in them as well. Beginning with the SB-220,?
>> statistically the average used SB-220 has at least one burned or > 
>> vaporized band?
>> switch contact!! I would venture to say that 7 out of every 10 amps I 
>>  > have seen?
>> have a bad contact. That is pretty bad odds. If you are looking to > 
>> buy an?
>> SB-220 you should be real concerned about this!! Often times if the > 
>> contact?
>> is not vaporized that amp still works because the contacts are > 
>> redundant.?
>> Sometimes only one contact on one side is bad and on the other side > 
>> it is "OK".?
>> As soon as a high SWR is present or some mistuning, you'll here an > 
>> arc come?
>> from that contact. In the long run, if you use that band a lot, > 
>> failure is?
>> close by. Those are pretty bad odds. The problem is it is very hard > 
>> to see?
>> the contacts on the switch and the inside contact is almost > 
>> impossible?
>> without the use of a bright light and a dental type mirror. Most > 
>> other problems?
>> are simple to fix, but this problem is a bummer. Keep this in mind. > 
>> OK, now?
>> for the 3-500's. The Sb-220 has been around for a long time, most of 
>>  > them?
>> made around the time when we all used "load em up radio transmitters" 
>>  > most of?
>> them were capable of over 100 watts output, some Drake and Swan 
>> radios > put?
>> out 250 watts. Even the lower wattage radios did 160 to 180 watts > 
>> output.?
>> You could kill a pair of 3-500's with this kind of power input > 
>> levels. SO I?
>> have seen my share of weak tubes. As time went on and the usual > 
>> solid state?
>> 100 watt radio was the norm, you would be hard pressed to destroy a > 
>> pair of?
>> 3-500's with only 100 watts drive in an SB-220. So the odds of > 
>> getting a full?
>> output set of tubes in an Sb-220 is very high. I'd say in the 90 > 
>> percentile!!?
>> Well that's some good news. I have also seen many different types > 
>> of?
>> 3-500s. Eimacs, Amperex, and others, including the Chinese > 
>> varieties. Eimac in?
>> the early and late 60's made a run of graphite tubes, they looked > 
>> different?
>> inside, much like a Pagoda instead of the typical turbine fan blade. 
>>  > Amperex?
>> tubes all looked like this. Not sure if all were graphite or not, > 
>> however I?
>> have noticed in a small population of older tubes of this sort a > 
>> difference?
>> in bias requirements. Typically the standard 3-500 is self biased at 
>>  > about?
>> 2500 volts or less and no additional bias voltage is required to > 
>> lower the?
>> idle current to about the normal 180 to 200 mills. The Drake L4.L4B > 
>> had no?
>> additional bias voltage. The SB-220 with about 2900 volts on the > 
>> plates has?
>> about 5 volts of bias which settles the tubes down to about 180 
>> mills. > If you?
>> run the tubes beyond 3000 volts you will need 5+ volts of bias and as 
>>  > high as?
>> 13v as in the Ameritron AL-82. Interestingly however, there was > 
>> "some" and I?
>> have only seen very few old Eimac and Amperex 3-500 tubes that seem > 
>> to be?
>> self biased at 3000 volts and require no additional bias to lower the 
>>  > idle?
>> current to 180 to 200 mills. At first when I encounter these tubes, I 
>>  > thought?
>> they were bad since the idle current when biased at 5 volts is so 
>> low, > but in?
>> the long run they are full output. I've used several Chinese brand > 
>> tubes in?
>> the past and I have always been pleased with them. Their performance 
>>  > is right?
>> up there with the top brands. The Sb-220 itself had some evolution, > 
>> there?
>> were 2 different types of loading variable caps used, the Sb-221 used 
>>  > a wider?
>> spaced tune cap. The Sb-221 did not have 10 meters unless it was > 
>> built like?
>> anSB-220 in the beginning by the builder buying the "10 meter kit". > 
>> The?
>> Sb-221 as it is lacks a 10 meter contact on the band switch so it is 
>>  > no simple?
>> "mod" to make one work on 10 meters. You'll need an extra contact on 
>>  > the input?
>> switch as well and some input coils. They did due diligence on > 
>> keeping the?
>> CB'ers from using this amp easily!! Ditto for the later HL-2200 amp. 
>>  > It has?
>> been a rewarding experience for me to have done these hundreds of > 
>> autopsy's.?
>> I am getting to fell like the Dr. G. of Sb-220's. My morgue is ever?
>> expanding. 73 Lou W1QJ?
>> **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores 
>>  > to?
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>
> 



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