[Amps] Automotive Relays

Pete Smith n4zr at contesting.com
Sun Aug 8 10:05:14 PDT 2010 

Joe's right, of course.

73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000


On 8/8/2010 10:44 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>   >  Currently using an RCS-10, which can have up to 7 relays in the
>   >  RF path.  Will be interesting to see how it holds up.
>
> Since the relays are arranged in a "tree" (one feeding two, each
> of which feeds two more) there are always three relays in line to
> each antenna.  See: http://ameritron.com/man/pdf/RCS-10.pdf
>
> 73,
>
>      ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 8/8/2010 6:07 AM, Pete Smith wrote:
>    
>> I did a survey about 15 years ago on CQ-Contest (then the only reflector
>> available).  IIRC, there were essentially no complaints about the
>> Ameritron RCS-8 or the TopTen remote relay box.  I used two TopTens for
>> maybe 10 years, often operating into>3:1 SWRs at>1200 watts (for
>> example, running an 80m array cut for CW up in the DX phone window) and
>> never had any relay problems.  Currently using an RCS-10, which can have
>> up to 7 relays in the RF path.  Will be interesting to see how it holds up.
>>
>> Right now my Array Solutions Stackmatch has a bad relay (dirty?).
>> Symptom is occasional high SWR and a lack of received signal on the
>> lower antenna in my tribander stack.  If I send a little high power RF
>> through it things are then fine.
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>
>> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
>> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
>> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>>
>>
>> On 8/7/2010 10:49 AM, Carl wrote:
>>      
>>> Most of the antenna switch problems were undersized traces, cheap connectors
>>> that melted, and VSWR related. Its been almost 20 years since Ive used any
>>> at power but one does duty switching Beverages 750' away. Maybe they
>>> improved them.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>> KM1H
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jeff Blaine"<keepwalking188 at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "Mike"<k4gmh at arrl.net>;<amps at contesting.com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 1:35 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> I would like to have said that using them in my case was due to some
>>>> superhuman research attempt.  But I just noticed that these were the
>>>> relays
>>>> in my Ameritron remote antenna switch.  And I checked them out - using
>>>> them
>>>> as a sort of benchmark to compare with.  Just never found a better relay
>>>> and
>>>> ran with them.
>>>>
>>>> There must be a lot of those Ameritron switches out.  While the
>>>> manufacturer's reputation has it's issues, I do think generally users are
>>>> happy with the switches.  This one has been ridden hard at about 1KW RTTY
>>>> service and seems to be holding up fine.  So far...  Fingers crossed.
>>>>
>>>> 73/jeff/ac0c
>>>> www.ac0c.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Mike"<k4gmh at arrl.net>
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:32 PM
>>>> To:<amps at contesting.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>>> Here the Tyco relays have been used without a failure for over five years
>>>>> in
>>>>> various homemade stack matchers, ant. switchers, etc. while running 1500
>>>>> W
>>>>> in RTTY contests.  They are also used at a local M/M station in various
>>>>> HF
>>>>> contest modes for all sort of ant. and amp. selection without a failure.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Rappack Controller Design for Stack Match", National Contest Journal,
>>>>> Jan/Feb 2005 or Wiki,
>>>>> http://wiki.contesting.com/index.php/Category:Remote_antenna_switches,
>>>>> devices are used to make sure the relay control voltage is appropriately
>>>>> applied to keep from hot switching the relays.  The single IC controller
>>>>> is
>>>>> based on the quad latch, CD4042.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Jeff Blaine
>>>>> <keepwalking188 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>            
>>>>>> Carl, you are right.  400.000 W.  So if that 12A version is good for a
>>>>>> US
>>>>>> 1500W, then the 16A version may be marginally acceptable for a guy
>>>>>> running
>>>>>> the AUS 400W.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now that I think of it, 2-3 in parallel may be the way to go if a guy
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> running 400.001 instead of 400.000 W as may happen - for the most brief
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> instances, of course.  :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I run the 24V version because the current is half and the power
>>>>>> dissipation
>>>>>> in the wires is a lot less as a result.   It's a great relay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 73/jeff/ac0c
>>>>>> www.ac0c.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> From: "Carl"<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 2:20 PM
>>>>>> To: "Jeff Blaine"<keepwalking188 at yahoo.com>; "Paul Christensen"
>>>>>> <w9ac at arrl.net>;<amps at contesting.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>>>> I thought the Emtron DX3 and 4 were the Aussie national amp(-;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Carl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>> Carl,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That relay is available in a 24V version.  And there's a 16A contacts
>>>>>>>> rating option as well which may be the better choice especially if a
>>>>>>>> guy
>>>>>>>> is running at the full AUS/NZ-400w power level instead of the
>>>>>>>> domestic
>>>>>>>> 1500w power level.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 73/jeff/ac0c
>>>>>>>> www.ac0c.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> From: "Carl"<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:33 AM
>>>>>>>> To: "Paul Christensen"<w9ac at arrl.net>;<amps at contesting.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>> I'll have to give those a try, I want to experiment with some 6M
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>> antenna
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>>> phasing. The 12V coil may be a problem in a very long run, probably
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>> have
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> dial back a 24V PS.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Carl
>>>>>>>>> KM1H
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Paul Christensen"<w9ac at arrl.net>
>>>>>>>>> To:<amps at contesting.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 5:37 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>> Although not strictly an "automotive" relay, W8ZR has conducted
>>>>>>>>>> extensive
>>>>>>>>>> tests on the Tyco/Shrack RTB14012, available for USD $1.80 ea. from
>>>>>>>>>> Mouser
>>>>>>>>>> Electronics:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=RTB14012
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jim is using these relays for high-power 1.5KW+ switching in his
>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>> StationPro controller.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.w8zr.net/stationpro/index.htm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> He's seeing some very low loss and VSWR numbers up through 6m, with
>>>>>>>>>> decent
>>>>>>>>>> performance through 2m.  Not bad for a $1.80 PCB sealed power
>>>>>>>>>> relay.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>     I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>>>> believe Jim has tested another similar relay with even lower loss
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> same price class.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Paul, W9AC
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Dave Hachadorian"<k6ll at arrl.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To:<amps at contesting.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:54 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                        
>>>>>>>>>>>> Below is some info from W2VJN on inexpensive relays for RF. They
>>>>>>>>>>>> are available for $2.43 each here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                          
>>>>>> http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/747811-relay-pwr-spdt-10a-12vdc-pc-mnt-jw1fsn-dc12v.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
>>>>>>>>>>>> Big Bear Lake, CA
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                          
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The relays which we use in the Top Ten Devices boxes are 10
>>>>>>>>>>>>> amp,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sealed power relays.  They are very small and have very low
>>>>>>>>>>>>> inductance.  The contacts are connected to the base pins with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wide conductors.  I have run many power tests on these relays
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the pc boards they are mounted on with temperature monitors
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and they will take full amateur power (+) to over 30 MHz.  We
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rate our boxes conservatively at 1.5 KW.  The part number is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> JW1FSN-DC12V.  They come with several different brand names on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them.  Similar relays are being used by other manufactures of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> amateur boxes and they rate them variously at 3 KW and 5 KW.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> George, W2VJN
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                            
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                          
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                        
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>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Amps mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>      73,
>>>>>      Mike, K4GMH
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>>>>>
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