[Amps] Automotive Relays
Jim W7RY
w7ry at inbox.com
Sun Aug 8 16:12:42 PDT 2010
I've had antennas do this but not relay boxes. Put a little RF into the antenna and it comes alive. A few mins later, low signal.
It was most likely a TH-6 or TH-7. Or a 2 element Cushcaft 40 meter beam since they are the only antennas that I have used over the past 18 years.
73
Jim W7RY
> -----Original Message-----
> From: n4zr at contesting.com
> Sent: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 06:07:21 -0400
> To: amps at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays
>
> I did a survey about 15 years ago on CQ-Contest (then the only reflector
> available). IIRC, there were essentially no complaints about the
> Ameritron RCS-8 or the TopTen remote relay box. I used two TopTens for
> maybe 10 years, often operating into >3:1 SWRs at >1200 watts (for
> example, running an 80m array cut for CW up in the DX phone window) and
> never had any relay problems. Currently using an RCS-10, which can have
> up to 7 relays in the RF path. Will be interesting to see how it holds
> up.
>
> Right now my Array Solutions Stackmatch has a bad relay (dirty?).
> Symptom is occasional high SWR and a lack of received signal on the
> lower antenna in my tribander stack. If I send a little high power RF
> through it things are then fine.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at
> www.conteststations.com
> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>
>
> On 8/7/2010 10:49 AM, Carl wrote:
>> Most of the antenna switch problems were undersized traces, cheap
>> connectors
>> that melted, and VSWR related. Its been almost 20 years since Ive used
>> any
>> at power but one does duty switching Beverages 750' away. Maybe they
>> improved them.
>>
>> Carl
>> KM1H
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff Blaine"<keepwalking188 at yahoo.com>
>> To: "Mike"<k4gmh at arrl.net>;<amps at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 1:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays
>>
>>
>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> I would like to have said that using them in my case was due to some
>>> superhuman research attempt. But I just noticed that these were the
>>> relays
>>> in my Ameritron remote antenna switch. And I checked them out - using
>>> them
>>> as a sort of benchmark to compare with. Just never found a better
>>> relay
>>> and
>>> ran with them.
>>>
>>> There must be a lot of those Ameritron switches out. While the
>>> manufacturer's reputation has it's issues, I do think generally users
>>> are
>>> happy with the switches. This one has been ridden hard at about 1KW
>>> RTTY
>>> service and seems to be holding up fine. So far... Fingers crossed.
>>>
>>> 73/jeff/ac0c
>>> www.ac0c.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Mike"<k4gmh at arrl.net>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:32 PM
>>> To:<amps at contesting.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays
>>>
>>>
>>>> Here the Tyco relays have been used without a failure for over five
>>>> years
>>>> in
>>>> various homemade stack matchers, ant. switchers, etc. while running
>>>> 1500
>>>> W
>>>> in RTTY contests. They are also used at a local M/M station in
>>>> various
>>>> HF
>>>> contest modes for all sort of ant. and amp. selection without a
>>>> failure.
>>>>
>>>> "Rappack Controller Design for Stack Match", National Contest Journal,
>>>> Jan/Feb 2005 or Wiki,
>>>> http://wiki.contesting.com/index.php/Category:Remote_antenna_switches,
>>>> devices are used to make sure the relay control voltage is
>>>> appropriately
>>>> applied to keep from hot switching the relays. The single IC
>>>> controller
>>>> is
>>>> based on the quad latch, CD4042.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Jeff Blaine
>>>> <keepwalking188 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Carl, you are right. 400.000 W. So if that 12A version is good for
>>>>> a
>>>>> US
>>>>> 1500W, then the 16A version may be marginally acceptable for a guy
>>>>> running
>>>>> the AUS 400W.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now that I think of it, 2-3 in parallel may be the way to go if a guy
>>>>> were
>>>>> running 400.001 instead of 400.000 W as may happen - for the most
>>>>> brief
>>>>> of
>>>>> instances, of course. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I run the 24V version because the current is half and the power
>>>>> dissipation
>>>>> in the wires is a lot less as a result. It's a great relay.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73/jeff/ac0c
>>>>> www.ac0c.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>> From: "Carl"<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 2:20 PM
>>>>> To: "Jeff Blaine"<keepwalking188 at yahoo.com>; "Paul Christensen"
>>>>> <w9ac at arrl.net>;<amps at contesting.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought the Emtron DX3 and 4 were the Aussie national amp(-;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carl
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Carl,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That relay is available in a 24V version. And there's a 16A
>>>>>>> contacts
>>>>>>> rating option as well which may be the better choice especially if
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> guy
>>>>>>> is running at the full AUS/NZ-400w power level instead of the
>>>>>>> domestic
>>>>>>> 1500w power level.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73/jeff/ac0c
>>>>>>> www.ac0c.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> From: "Carl"<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 8:33 AM
>>>>>>> To: "Paul Christensen"<w9ac at arrl.net>;<amps at contesting.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll have to give those a try, I want to experiment with some 6M
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> antenna
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> phasing. The 12V coil may be a problem in a very long run,
>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> have
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> dial back a 24V PS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Carl
>>>>>>>> KM1H
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Paul Christensen"<w9ac at arrl.net>
>>>>>>>> To:<amps at contesting.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 5:37 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Although not strictly an "automotive" relay, W8ZR has conducted
>>>>>>>>> extensive
>>>>>>>>> tests on the Tyco/Shrack RTB14012, available for USD $1.80 ea.
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> Mouser
>>>>>>>>> Electronics:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=RTB14012
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jim is using these relays for high-power 1.5KW+ switching in his
>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>> StationPro controller.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.w8zr.net/stationpro/index.htm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He's seeing some very low loss and VSWR numbers up through 6m,
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> decent
>>>>>>>>> performance through 2m. Not bad for a $1.80 PCB sealed power
>>>>>>>>> relay.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> believe Jim has tested another similar relay with even lower loss
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> same price class.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Paul, W9AC
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Dave Hachadorian"<k6ll at arrl.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To:<amps at contesting.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:54 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Automotive Relays
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Below is some info from W2VJN on inexpensive relays for RF.
>>>>>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>>>>>> are available for $2.43 each here:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/747811-relay-pwr-spdt-10a-12vdc-pc-mnt-jw1fsn-dc12v.html
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
>>>>>>>>>>> Big Bear Lake, CA
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The relays which we use in the Top Ten Devices boxes are 10
>>>>>>>>>>>> amp,
>>>>>>>>>>>> sealed power relays. They are very small and have very low
>>>>>>>>>>>> inductance. The contacts are connected to the base pins with
>>>>>>>>>>>> wide conductors. I have run many power tests on these relays
>>>>>>>>>>>> and the pc boards they are mounted on with temperature
>>>>>>>>>>>> monitors
>>>>>>>>>>>> and they will take full amateur power (+) to over 30 MHz. We
>>>>>>>>>>>> rate our boxes conservatively at 1.5 KW. The part number is
>>>>>>>>>>>> JW1FSN-DC12V. They come with several different brand names on
>>>>>>>>>>>> them. Similar relays are being used by other manufactures of
>>>>>>>>>>>> amateur boxes and they rate them variously at 3 KW and 5 KW.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> George, W2VJN
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Amps mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Amps mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Amps mailing list
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Amps mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> 73,
>>>> Mike, K4GMH
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