[Amps] Amps Digest, Vol 135, Issue 43
Ronald Brown
k0idx at yahoo.com
Tue Apr 1 13:33:58 EDT 2014
Kapton was used all over spacecrafts although it was used as a wrap covering for shielded multi conductor insulated nickel wire. This was control wire specifically in the shuttle program and earlier in Apollo but post Apollo 1 fire. I would use it, unless your invironment includes hydro carbons and flying bullets.
On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 1:50 AM, "amps-request at contesting.com" <amps-request at contesting.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: L4-B (Mark Bitterlich)
2. Re: L4-B (Bryan Swadener)
3. Re: L4-B (Mark Bitterlich)
4. Re: L4-B (Michael Tope)
5. Re: L4-B (donroden at hiwaay.net)
6. Re: L4-B (Paul Christensen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:26:05 -0400
From: "Mark Bitterlich" <markbitterlich at embarqmail.com>
To: "Bryan Swadener" <bswadener at yahoo.com>, <amps at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
Message-ID: <956E84F6CE4443E3BE15A1A6E6BB0B7C at PC144745932200>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Really? Interesting. Just FYI, Kapton insulated wire was removed from ALL
military aircraft after some very impressive tests were done showing how it
tended to blow and burn under certain conditions. Of course, that was the
Kapton insulated wire. I know zip, nada, ZERO about the tape. Possibly it
is A-OK.
v/r,
Mark Bitterlich
WA3JPY
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Swadener" <bswadener at yahoo.com>
To: <amps at contesting.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
> Also, Kapton(tm) aka polyimide tape will work FB.
> It works well at high temperature and high voltage.
>
> vy 73,
> Bryan WA7PRC
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 23:07:13 -0500
> From: Edwin Karl
> To: amps at contesting.com
> Subject: [Amps] L4-B
>
> Just be very careful with the power resistors used in the
> bias cutoff/
> bleeder
> They are mounted on long screws that run through the center
> of the
> resistor. In
> repairing an amplifier for a buddy, I had the resistors
> short through the
> porcelain of the resistor.
>
> The fix is use good 3m glass tape to insulate the screw, and
> enough on
> the ends to insure centering the resistors. Unlike
> electrical tape,
> glass tape
> is rated at 240 degrees and will withstand the high heat.
> Make sure to
> reinstall
> the mica insulators.
>
> Good Luck!
> We're all counting on you ...
>
> 73
>
> Ed K0Kl
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 16:33:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bryan Swadener <bswadener at yahoo.com>
To: amps at contesting.com, Mark Bitterlich
<markbitterlich at embarqmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
Message-ID:
<1396308805.34692.YahooMailBasic at web122101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Yes, really.
We used it for decades, in both tape form and Kapton-insulated
wire form, in critical applications at the world's largest OEM
of RF-driven sealed CO2 Lasers.
The stuff is VERY tough. The only way we found to remove
the insulation from wire ends was by blasting it with one of our
more powerful (> 100W) Lasers or, by mechanically scraping it off.
vy 73,
Bryan WA7PRC
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 3/31/14, Mark Bitterlich wrote:
Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
To: Bryan WA7PRC, amps at contesting.com
Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 4:26 PM
Really????Interesting.?
Just FYI, Kapton insulated wire was removed from ALL
military aircraft after some very impressive tests were done
showing how it
tended to blow and burn under certain conditions.? Of
course, that was the
Kapton insulated wire.? I know zip, nada, ZERO about
the tape.? Possibly it
is A-OK.
v/r,
Mark Bitterlich
WA3JPY
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan WA7PRC
To: <amps at contesting.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
> Also, Kapton(tm) aka polyimide tape will work FB.
> It works well at high temperature and high voltage.
>
> vy 73,
> Bryan WA7PRC
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 23:07:13 -0500
> From: Edwin Karl
> To: amps at contesting.com
> Subject: [Amps] L4-B
>
> Just be very careful with the power resistors used in
the
> bias cutoff/
> bleeder
> They are mounted on long screws that run through the
center
> of the
> resistor. In
> repairing an amplifier for a buddy, I had the
resistors
> short through the
> porcelain of the resistor.
>
> The fix is use good 3m glass tape to insulate the
screw, and
> enough on
> the ends to insure centering the resistors. Unlike
> electrical tape,
> glass tape
> is rated at 240 degrees and will withstand the high
heat.
> Make sure to
> reinstall
> the mica insulators.
>
> Good Luck!
> We're all counting on you ...
>
> 73
>
> Ed K0Kl
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 20:45:19 -0400
From: "Mark Bitterlich" <markbitterlich at embarqmail.com>
To: "Bryan Swadener" <bswadener at yahoo.com>, <amps at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
Message-ID: <8710D9003D4046B598BD2400CCBC67F3 at PC144745932200>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I believe you Bryan.
That said:
The biggest problem it had was wicking up hydrocarbons, which are not
usually found in the ham shack, or a OEM RF-driven Sealed Laser facility.
:-) In any case, the various oils, or fuel, would wick up the wire and
then through some magic of chemistry turn into carbon. The carbon would
eventually start to conduct, get very hot very quickly and then would
vaporize the whole wire.
Tests were done (and filmed) showing the results of one Kapton wire
shorting, and how it caused others in the wire bundle to also go up in smoke
and catch fire. It worked just fine until the outer insulation became
cracked and contamination creeped in, or it was damaged from a physical hit,
say from a bullet ... which is what the film tests documented.
The stuff may be very tough, but it was so freaking dangerous that NAVAIR
spent tons of money to have whole circuit breaker panels and wiring bundles
replaced, after Kapton wiring was attributed to several in-flight fires.
I personally had some of it carrying 3 phase 115 VAC blow up in my face.
Feel free to use it anyway you like. I would not put it into anything I own
even if I was given it for free... which by the way, I was.
And yep... really. Sorry if this conflicts with your experience, but what I
am telling you is factual.
Take care,
Mark Bitterlich
WA3JPY
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Swadener" <bswadener at yahoo.com>
To: <amps at contesting.com>; "Mark Bitterlich" <markbitterlich at embarqmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
Yes, really.
We used it for decades, in both tape form and Kapton-insulated
wire form, in critical applications at the world's largest OEM
of RF-driven sealed CO2 Lasers.
The stuff is VERY tough. The only way we found to remove
the insulation from wire ends was by blasting it with one of our
more powerful (> 100W) Lasers or, by mechanically scraping it off.
vy 73,
Bryan WA7PRC
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 3/31/14, Mark Bitterlich wrote:
Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
To: Bryan WA7PRC, amps at contesting.com
Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 4:26 PM
Really? Interesting.
Just FYI, Kapton insulated wire was removed from ALL
military aircraft after some very impressive tests were done
showing how it
tended to blow and burn under certain conditions. Of
course, that was the
Kapton insulated wire. I know zip, nada, ZERO about
the tape. Possibly it
is A-OK.
v/r,
Mark Bitterlich
WA3JPY
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan WA7PRC
To: <amps at contesting.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
> Also, Kapton(tm) aka polyimide tape will work FB.
> It works well at high temperature and high voltage.
>
> vy 73,
> Bryan WA7PRC
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 23:07:13 -0500
> From: Edwin Karl
> To: amps at contesting.com
> Subject: [Amps] L4-B
>
> Just be very careful with the power resistors used in
the
> bias cutoff/
> bleeder
> They are mounted on long screws that run through the
center
> of the
> resistor. In
> repairing an amplifier for a buddy, I had the
resistors
> short through the
> porcelain of the resistor.
>
> The fix is use good 3m glass tape to insulate the
screw, and
> enough on
> the ends to insure centering the resistors. Unlike
> electrical tape,
> glass tape
> is rated at 240 degrees and will withstand the high
heat.
> Make sure to
> reinstall
> the mica insulators.
>
> Good Luck!
> We're all counting on you ...
>
> 73
>
> Ed K0Kl
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:01:59 -0700
From: Michael Tope <W4EF at dellroy.com>
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
Message-ID: <533A1007.2050704 at dellroy.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
It is used pretty extensively in the flight hardware that JPL builds for
space. I know for a fact there was a bunch used on the landing radar for
the Curiosity rover. I am sure there is a bunch of it on the rover as
well. In fact, I would be real surprised if there are any JPL spacecraft
in service that don't use at least some of the stuff.
On earth people use duct tape, in space they use Kapton tape :-)
73, Mike W4EF................
On 3/31/2014 4:33 PM, Bryan Swadener wrote:
> Yes, really.
>
> We used it for decades, in both tape form and Kapton-insulated
> wire form, in critical applications at the world's largest OEM
> of RF-driven sealed CO2 Lasers.
>
> The stuff is VERY tough. The only way we found to remove
> the insulation from wire ends was by blasting it with one of our
> more powerful (> 100W) Lasers or, by mechanically scraping it off.
>
> vy 73,
> Bryan WA7PRC
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 3/31/14, Mark Bitterlich wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
> To: Bryan WA7PRC, amps at contesting.com
> Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 4:26 PM
>
> Really? Interesting.
> Just FYI, Kapton insulated wire was removed from ALL
> military aircraft after some very impressive tests were done
> showing how it
> tended to blow and burn under certain conditions. Of
> course, that was the
> Kapton insulated wire. I know zip, nada, ZERO about
> the tape. Possibly it
> is A-OK.
>
> v/r,
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> WA3JPY
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bryan WA7PRC
> To: <amps at contesting.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
>
>
> > Also, Kapton(tm) aka polyimide tape will work FB.
> > It works well at high temperature and high voltage.
> >
> > vy 73,
> > Bryan WA7PRC
> > --------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 23:07:13 -0500
> > From: Edwin Karl
> > To: amps at contesting.com
> > Subject: [Amps] L4-B
> >
> > Just be very careful with the power resistors used in
> the
> > bias cutoff/
> > bleeder
> > They are mounted on long screws that run through the
> center
> > of the
> > resistor. In
> > repairing an amplifier for a buddy, I had the
> resistors
> > short through the
> > porcelain of the resistor.
> >
> > The fix is use good 3m glass tape to insulate the
> screw, and
> > enough on
> > the ends to insure centering the resistors. Unlike
> > electrical tape,
> > glass tape
> > is rated at 240 degrees and will withstand the high
> heat.
> > Make sure to
> > reinstall
> > the mica insulators.
> >
> > Good Luck!
> > We're all counting on you ...
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Ed K0Kl
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 20:09:34 -0500
From: donroden at hiwaay.net
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
Message-ID: <20140331200934.172232djlli9n07i at webmail.hiwaay.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"
Harris uses a sheet of it between the cavity and a large square piece
of aluminum for a coupling capacitor @ 11KVDC + RF . Continental
wraps it around a two piece stovepipe attached to the plate of a
4CX35000 in their design again 11KV DC + RF. Pretty tough stuff.
Don W4DNR
Quoting Michael Tope <W4EF at dellroy.com>:
> It is used pretty extensively in the flight hardware that JPL builds
> for space. I know for a fact there was a bunch used on the landing
> radar for the Curiosity rover. I am sure there is a bunch of it on
> the rover as well. In fact, I would be real surprised if there are
> any JPL spacecraft in service that don't use at least some of the
> stuff.
>
> On earth people use duct tape, in space they use Kapton tape :-)
>
> 73, Mike W4EF................
>
> On 3/31/2014 4:33 PM, Bryan Swadener wrote:
>> Yes, really.
>>
>> We used it for decades, in both tape form and Kapton-insulated
>> wire form, in critical applications at the world's largest OEM
>> of RF-driven sealed CO2 Lasers.
>>
>> The stuff is VERY tough. The only way we found to remove
>> the insulation from wire ends was by blasting it with one of our
>> more powerful (> 100W) Lasers or, by mechanically scraping it off.
>>
>> vy 73,
>> Bryan WA7PRC
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Mon, 3/31/14, Mark Bitterlich wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
>> To: Bryan WA7PRC, amps at contesting.com
>> Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 4:26 PM
>> Really? Interesting.
>> Just FYI, Kapton insulated wire was removed from ALL
>> military aircraft after some very impressive tests were done
>> showing how it
>> tended to blow and burn under certain conditions. Of
>> course, that was the
>> Kapton insulated wire. I know zip, nada, ZERO about
>> the tape. Possibly it
>> is A-OK.
>> v/r,
>> Mark Bitterlich
>> WA3JPY
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Bryan WA7PRC
>> To: <amps at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
>> > Also, Kapton(tm) aka polyimide tape will work FB.
>> > It works well at high temperature and high voltage.
>> >
>> > vy 73,
>> > Bryan WA7PRC
>> > --------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 23:07:13 -0500
>> > From: Edwin Karl
>> > To: amps at contesting.com
>> > Subject: [Amps] L4-B
>> >
>> > Just be very careful with the power resistors used in
>> the
>> > bias cutoff/
>> > bleeder
>> > They are mounted on long screws that run through the
>> center
>> > of the
>> > resistor. In
>> > repairing an amplifier for a buddy, I had the
>> resistors
>> > short through the
>> > porcelain of the resistor.
>> >
>> > The fix is use good 3m glass tape to insulate the
>> screw, and
>> > enough on
>> > the ends to insure centering the resistors. Unlike
>> > electrical tape,
>> > glass tape
>> > is rated at 240 degrees and will withstand the high
>> heat.
>> > Make sure to
>> > reinstall
>> > the mica insulators.
>> >
>> > Good Luck!
>> > We're all counting on you ...
>> >
>> > 73
>> >
>> > Ed K0Kl
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 21:19:55 -0400
From: "Paul Christensen" <w9ac at arrl.net>
To: <amps at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
Message-ID: <F9E7A6B16D084663956E3207ED3BF123 at PaulChristensen>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
In another life, I recall changing out the Kapton blocker in a Harris
FM-35K. It hadn't failed in 24/7 service at 12KV, but a service bulletin in
the late'80s called for doubling-up on the sheets to increase the breakdown
voltage. A single sheet was likely fine but where routine maintenance is
lacking, an an accumulation of dirt/dust probably resulted in a few field
failures.
Paul, W9AC
-----Original Message-----
From: donroden at hiwaay.net
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 9:09 PM
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
Harris uses a sheet of it between the cavity and a large square piece
of aluminum for a coupling capacitor @ 11KVDC + RF . Continental
wraps it around a two piece stovepipe attached to the plate of a
4CX35000 in their design again 11KV DC + RF. Pretty tough stuff.
Don W4DNR
Quoting Michael Tope <W4EF at dellroy.com>:
> It is used pretty extensively in the flight hardware that JPL builds for
> space. I know for a fact there was a bunch used on the landing radar for
> the Curiosity rover. I am sure there is a bunch of it on the rover as
> well. In fact, I would be real surprised if there are any JPL spacecraft
> in service that don't use at least some of the stuff.
>
> On earth people use duct tape, in space they use Kapton tape :-)
>
> 73, Mike W4EF................
>
> On 3/31/2014 4:33 PM, Bryan Swadener wrote:
>> Yes, really.
>>
>> We used it for decades, in both tape form and Kapton-insulated
>> wire form, in critical applications at the world's largest OEM
>> of RF-driven sealed CO2 Lasers.
>>
>> The stuff is VERY tough. The only way we found to remove
>> the insulation from wire ends was by blasting it with one of our
>> more powerful (> 100W) Lasers or, by mechanically scraping it off.
>>
>> vy 73,
>> Bryan WA7PRC
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Mon, 3/31/14, Mark Bitterlich wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
>> To: Bryan WA7PRC, amps at contesting.com
>> Date: Monday, March 31, 2014, 4:26 PM
>> Really? Interesting.
>> Just FYI, Kapton insulated wire was removed from ALL
>> military aircraft after some very impressive tests were done
>> showing how it
>> tended to blow and burn under certain conditions. Of
>> course, that was the
>> Kapton insulated wire. I know zip, nada, ZERO about
>> the tape. Possibly it
>> is A-OK.
>> v/r,
>> Mark Bitterlich
>> WA3JPY
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Bryan WA7PRC
>> To: <amps at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] L4-B
>> > Also, Kapton(tm) aka polyimide tape will work FB.
>> > It works well at high temperature and high voltage.
>> >
>> > vy 73,
>> > Bryan WA7PRC
>> > --------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 23:07:13 -0500
>> > From: Edwin Karl
>> > To: amps at contesting.com
>> > Subject: [Amps] L4-B
>> >
>> > Just be very careful with the power resistors used in
>> the
>> > bias cutoff/
>> > bleeder
>> > They are mounted on long screws that run through the
>> center
>> > of the
>> > resistor. In
>> > repairing an amplifier for a buddy, I had the
>> resistors
>> > short through the
>> > porcelain of the resistor.
>> >
>> > The fix is use good 3m glass tape to insulate the
>> screw, and
>> > enough on
>> > the ends to insure centering the resistors. Unlike
>> > electrical tape,
>> > glass tape
>> > is rated at 240 degrees and will withstand the high
>> heat.
>> > Make sure to
>> > reinstall
>> > the mica insulators.
>> >
>> > Good Luck!
>> > We're all counting on you ...
>> >
>> > 73
>> >
>> > Ed K0Kl
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
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------------------------------
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------------------------------
End of Amps Digest, Vol 135, Issue 43
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