[Amps] Heart Pacemakers

chris at chrishays.com chris at chrishays.com
Sun Aug 3 15:15:32 EDT 2014


First, I'm not a doctor nor do I play one on TV, but because of an
experience I had, I urge that before you commit to a pacemaker procedure,
make a careful review of ALL the drugs you are taking for interactions that
might cause a heart rhythm problem.  In my case, I noticed a strange heart
beat problem, and as I was getting ready to make a Dr appointment, I
realized that I had started using a steroid nasal spray for my allergies.
Research on the internet revealed that there was a potential issue with that
and another drug I was taking as a sleep aid.  I switched to a different
nasal spray and the problem went away.  These things can be missed by
Doctors and Pharmacists.

As we get older we poke more and more chemicals down our throats, so it is
best to be vigilant.

Your need may be perfectly legitimate, but it only takes a little effort to
research the interactions for yourself on the Internet.

I apologize for being slightly off topic here!

Chris, AB6QK

-----Original Message-----
From: Amps [mailto:amps-bounces at contesting.com]On Behalf Of
amps-request at contesting.com
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 3:34 PM
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Amps Digest, Vol 140, Issue 3


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Today's Topics:

   1. Experience with Heart Pacemakers? (George)
   2. Re: Experience with Heart Pacemakers? (Jim Brown)
   3. Re: Experience with Heart Pacemakers? (Carl)
   4. Re: Experience with Heart Pacemakers? (Roger (K8RI))
   5. Re: Experience with Heart Pacemakers? ( Dave AA6YQ)
   6. Re: Experience with Heart Pacemakers? (Jim Brown)
   7. Re: Experience with Heart Pacemakers? (Jim Brown)
   8. Re: Experience with Heart Pacemakers? (Roger (K8RI))
   9. Re: Experience with Heart Pacemakers? (Carl)
  10. Re: Experience with Heart Pacemakers? (Glen Zook via Amps)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 13:28:24 -0400
From: "George" <w8uvz at voyager.net>
To: <amps at contesting.com>
Subject: [Amps] Experience with Heart Pacemakers?
Message-ID: <CFBFBF1FD973409B9DED471111BEE7F4 at none1HP>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="UTF-8"

My Cardiologist has recommended that I consider having a Pacemaker
installed.  After reading some of the pamphlets from a couple of the
Manufacturers, I came away with the impression that they don?t mix well with
higher power RF amplifiers.

I be interested in hearing the experience of those with this dilemma ? both
ways i.e.

What amps do not interfere with  which Pacemakers?

What Pacemakers do best with most amps?

Maybe there is a thread on this subject but I didn?t notice one?

Either online or off is okay.

Hate to think about giving up my DXing hobby with QRO!

73  George  W8UVZ

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 10:49:17 -0700
From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Experience with Heart Pacemakers?
Message-ID: <53DD249D.1030202 at audiosystemsgroup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On 8/2/2014 10:28 AM, George wrote:
> What Pacemakers do best with most amps?

I know nothing about Pacemakers or their RF susceptibility, but I do
know a bit about RFI. As far as I know, there are two issues. One is the
leakage magnetic flux from the power transformer. The other is radiated
RF. Unless the amp is a poorly shielded POS, all the RF gets radiated by
your antennas, with some possible leakage from el-cheapo coax and
connectors, and connectors poorly installed.

So the key issues are:

1) locate the power supply as far from where you will operate as
possible. This may mean using a different power amp.

2) eliminate the use of any antennas that put a lot of RF in your shack.
This generally means use only well-behaved beams and dipoles fed with
coax, again as far from the shack as practical.

3) go through EVERYTHING in the RF path between your power amp and your
antennas and make sure that it is well shielded, all the coax has a
beefy copper braid shield, that all connectors are first quality
Amphenols, all are properly installed, and there are no el-cheapo junk
connectors, barrels, adapters, etc. in line.

4) study the construction of your power amp to verify that it is,
indeed, well shielded. Are all cables either shielded or properly
bypassed?  Do shields go directly to the chassis where they enter the
amp? (They must for shielding to work).

5) Find out from the manufacturer of the pacemaker the specific range of
frequencies to which it has sensitivity.

73, Jim K9YC


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 15:07:35 -0400
From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
To: "George" <w8uvz at voyager.net>,	<amps at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Experience with Heart Pacemakers?
Message-ID: <411F4427703949E39836E7599F82D79F at computer1>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
	reply-type=original

Put the amp in another room or seperate it from you by a grounded screen
wall/enclosure....never give up the amp!

Or get a Henry 8K which had the remote package as an option I believe or it
was part of the package.

Carl


----- Original Message -----
From: "George" <w8uvz at voyager.net>
To: <amps at contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 1:28 PM
Subject: [Amps] Experience with Heart Pacemakers?


> My Cardiologist has recommended that I consider having a Pacemaker
> installed.  After reading some of the pamphlets from a couple of the
> Manufacturers, I came away with the impression that they don?t mix well
> with higher power RF amplifiers.
>
> I be interested in hearing the experience of those with this dilemma ?
> both ways i.e.
>
> What amps do not interfere with  which Pacemakers?
>
> What Pacemakers do best with most amps?
>
> Maybe there is a thread on this subject but I didn?t notice one?
>
> Either online or off is okay.
>
> Hate to think about giving up my DXing hobby with QRO!
>
> 73  George  W8UVZ
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7967 - Release Date: 08/02/14
>



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 16:09:08 -0400
From: "Roger (K8RI)" <k8ri at rogerhalstead.com>
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Experience with Heart Pacemakers?
Message-ID: <53DD4564.8000701 at rogerhalstead.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On 8/2/2014 1:28 PM, George wrote:
> My Cardiologist has recommended that I consider having a Pacemaker
installed.  After reading some of the pamphlets from a couple of the
Manufacturers, I came away with the impression that they don?t mix well with
higher power RF amplifiers.

I have a Defib/pacemaker.  The "only restrictions are no cellphone in my
shirt pocket and when welding (yes welding) route the cables away from
my core, IOW bring them in from the side or above (away from me).

I run the legal limit with an amp capable of 2500 PEP and no problems.

There are the two problems mentioned, but typically a transformer has no
where near the magnetic field associated with welding and unless it's a
home brew amp with an old transformer I'd not expect any problems.

HOWEVER There is a difference in pacemakers.  Go on line and check
pacemakers and susceptibility to RF.  You may have to phrase it several
ways to find the best.  "I think" mine has something to do with the
Cleveland Clinic.  At any rate, it was the highest rated for immunity to
the two issues.

When I asked my cardiologist, they gave me several pamphlets describing
the susceptibility and immunity for a number of pacemakers and a
tutorial on welding while wearing a pacemaker.

I've done a lot of welding, cutting with a plasma torch, and hamming
with the amp running for over 10 years now with no issues.

You should be able to get one installed that will let you run the ham
station.  I would stay away from the antennas when someone is
transmitting.  IOW, don't climb the tower to check the field strength
when someone is running the rig just short of tilt and stay away from
the ends of your 75 and 160 inverted Vs

73 and good luck,

Roger (K8RI)


>
> I be interested in hearing the experience of those with this dilemma ?
both ways i.e.
>
> What amps do not interfere with  which Pacemakers?
>
> What Pacemakers do best with most amps?
>
> Maybe there is a thread on this subject but I didn?t notice one?
>
> Either online or off is okay.
>
> Hate to think about giving up my DXing hobby with QRO!
>
> 73  George  W8UVZ
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 16:47:32 -0400
From: " Dave AA6YQ" <aa6yq at ambersoft.com>
To: <amps at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Experience with Heart Pacemakers?
Message-ID: <1b9701cfae92$fe1c27b0$fa547710$@ambersoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="UTF-8"

I don't have a cardiac pacemaker or defibrillator installed, but as part of
the effort to introduce wireless electronic voting to our (New England) Town
Meeting, I addressed concerns with the use of WiFi voting handsets by
directly contacting major implanted device manufacturers like Boston
Scientific and Medtronic.  Each provided me with explicit constraints for
their devices; I didn't ask, but suspect that they each have an answer to
the "what about HF power amplifiers?" question. I suggest that you contact
them and ask.

      73,

              Dave, AA6YQ

-----Original Message-----
From: Amps [mailto:amps-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Roger (K8RI)
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 4:09 PM
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Experience with Heart Pacemakers?

On 8/2/2014 1:28 PM, George wrote:
> My Cardiologist has recommended that I consider having a Pacemaker
installed.  After reading some of the pamphlets from a couple of the
Manufacturers, I came away with the impression that they don t mix well with
higher power RF amplifiers.

I have a Defib/pacemaker.  The "only restrictions are no cellphone in my
shirt pocket and when welding (yes welding) route the cables away from my
core, IOW bring them in from the side or above (away from me).

I run the legal limit with an amp capable of 2500 PEP and no problems.

There are the two problems mentioned, but typically a transformer has no
where near the magnetic field associated with welding and unless it's a home
brew amp with an old transformer I'd not expect any problems.

HOWEVER There is a difference in pacemakers.  Go on line and check
pacemakers and susceptibility to RF.  You may have to phrase it several ways
to find the best.  "I think" mine has something to do with the Cleveland
Clinic.  At any rate, it was the highest rated for immunity to the two
issues.

When I asked my cardiologist, they gave me several pamphlets describing the
susceptibility and immunity for a number of pacemakers and a tutorial on
welding while wearing a pacemaker.

I've done a lot of welding, cutting with a plasma torch, and hamming with
the amp running for over 10 years now with no issues.

You should be able to get one installed that will let you run the ham
station.  I would stay away from the antennas when someone is transmitting.
IOW, don't climb the tower to check the field strength when someone is
running the rig just short of tilt and stay away from the ends of your 75
and 160 inverted Vs

73 and good luck,

Roger (K8RI)


>
> I be interested in hearing the experience of those with this dilemma
both ways i.e.
>
> What amps do not interfere with  which Pacemakers?
>
> What Pacemakers do best with most amps?
>
> Maybe there is a thread on this subject but I didn t notice one?
>
> Either online or off is okay.
>
> Hate to think about giving up my DXing hobby with QRO!
>
> 73  George  W8UVZ
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps


_______________________________________________
Amps mailing list
Amps at contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 14:56:11 -0700
From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Experience with Heart Pacemakers?
Message-ID: <53DD5E7B.5030504 at audiosystemsgroup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

On 8/2/2014 1:47 PM, Dave AA6YQ wrote:
> I suggest that you contact them and ask.

I should have thought to suggest contact with ARRL as well. With as many
members solidly into oldfarthood, they must certainly have looked into
this. :)

73, Jim K9YC


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 14:57:39 -0700
From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Experience with Heart Pacemakers?
Message-ID: <53DD5ED3.3090405 at audiosystemsgroup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On 8/2/2014 12:07 PM, Carl wrote:
> Put the amp in another room or seperate it from you by a grounded
> screen wall/enclosure....never give up the amp!

A grounded screen wall/enclosure shields only the electric field and the
EM field. It is completely ineffective for magnetic shielding, and
that's the potential hazard of the amp.

73, Jim K9YC


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 18:13:27 -0400
From: "Roger (K8RI)" <k8ri at rogerhalstead.com>
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Experience with Heart Pacemakers?
Message-ID: <53DD6287.2000404 at rogerhalstead.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On 8/2/2014 5:57 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 8/2/2014 12:07 PM, Carl wrote:
>> Put the amp in another room or seperate it from you by a grounded
>> screen wall/enclosure....never give up the amp!
>
> A grounded screen wall/enclosure shields only the electric field and
> the EM field. It is completely ineffective for magnetic shielding, and
> that's the potential hazard of the amp.

Jim, most "present day" cardiac pace makers and defibrillators are
pretty much immune to RF except at their link and internal operating
frequencies.  The ones developed by Cleveland clinic, which I have had
no limitations as to ham radio frequencies, or welding.  They did
recommend routing the cables away from your core.

Typically the cables would run lengthwise with your body. They
recommended not to do that, but to bring them in from the side. They
actually have a tutorial on welding.

The only real restriction was to not carry a cell phone in your shirt
pocket over the pacemaker/defib.
I've been welding, using a plasma torch and operating HF for nigh onto
10 years with no problems.
BTW the amp is between 2 to 3 feet from me.

73

Roger (K8RI)


>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>




------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 18:20:14 -0400
From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
To: <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>,	<amps at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Experience with Heart Pacemakers?
Message-ID: <560736272153451B9679A77212D250F1 at computer1>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response

Potential but unlikely with a properly built amp in a steel enclosure. RF is
a much more likely culprit.

Carl
KM1H



----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Brown" <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: <amps at contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Amps] Experience with Heart Pacemakers?


> On 8/2/2014 12:07 PM, Carl wrote:
>> Put the amp in another room or seperate it from you by a grounded screen
>> wall/enclosure....never give up the amp!
>
> A grounded screen wall/enclosure shields only the electric field and the
> EM field. It is completely ineffective for magnetic shielding, and that's
> the potential hazard of the amp.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7967 - Release Date: 08/02/14
>



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2014 15:33:33 -0700
From: Glen Zook via Amps <amps at contesting.com>
To: Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq at ambersoft.com>,	"amps at contesting.com"
	<amps at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Experience with Heart Pacemakers?
Message-ID:
	<1407018813.2278.YahooMailNeo at web142302.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I have had a St. Jude Medical pacemaker for a little over 2-years and
absolutely no problems. ?My main linear amplifier won't quite make full
legal power, it runs around 1400-watts. ?I operate on all bands from 1800
kHz through 432 MHz including the 222 MHz band.

The only restriction is that I cannot have an MRI without specific
precautions. ?CT scans are fine.

I did verify the no problems with both the technician who did the initial
programming of the pacemaker and then with the engineering staff at St. Jude
Medical. ?I understand that several of those on the engineering staff are
amateur radio operators and, as such, they do understand the concerns about
having problems with RF.?
?
Glen, K9STH


Website:  http://k9sth.com


On Saturday, August 2, 2014 3:49 PM, Dave AA6YQ <aa6yq at ambersoft.com> wrote:



I don't have a cardiac pacemaker or defibrillator installed, but as part of
the effort to introduce wireless electronic voting to our (New England) Town
Meeting, I addressed concerns with the use of WiFi voting handsets by
directly contacting major implanted device manufacturers like Boston
Scientific and Medtronic.? Each provided me with explicit constraints for
their devices; I didn't ask, but suspect that they each have an answer to
the "what about HF power amplifiers?" question. I suggest that you contact
them and ask.

? ? ? 73,

? ? ? ? ? ? ? Dave, AA6YQ

-----Original Message-----
From: Amps [mailto:amps-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Roger (K8RI)
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 4:09 PM
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Experience with Heart Pacemakers?

On 8/2/2014 1:28 PM, George wrote:
> My Cardiologist has recommended that I consider having a Pacemaker
installed.? After reading some of the pamphlets from a couple of the
Manufacturers, I came away with the impression that they don t mix well with
higher power RF amplifiers.

I have a Defib/pacemaker.? The "only restrictions are no cellphone in my
shirt pocket and when welding (yes welding) route the cables away from my
core, IOW bring them in from the side or above (away from me).

I run the legal limit with an amp capable of 2500 PEP and no problems.

There are the two problems mentioned, but typically a transformer has no
where near the magnetic field associated with welding and unless it's a home
brew amp with an old transformer I'd not expect any problems.

HOWEVER There is a difference in pacemakers.? Go on line and check
pacemakers and susceptibility to RF.? You may have to phrase it several ways
to find the best.? "I think" mine has something to do with the Cleveland
Clinic.? At any rate, it was the highest rated for immunity to the two
issues.

When I asked my cardiologist, they gave me several pamphlets describing the
susceptibility and immunity for a number of pacemakers and a tutorial on
welding while wearing a pacemaker.

I've done a lot of welding, cutting with a plasma torch, and hamming with
the amp running for over 10 years now with no issues.

You should be able to get one installed that will let you run the ham
station.? I would stay away from the antennas when someone is transmitting.?
IOW, don't climb the tower to check the field strength when someone is
running the rig just short of tilt and stay away from the ends of your 75
and 160 inverted Vs

73 and good luck,

Roger (K8RI)


>
> I be interested in hearing the experience of those with this dilemma?
both ways i.e.
>
> What amps do not interfere with? which Pacemakers?
>
> What Pacemakers do best with most amps?
>
> Maybe there is a thread on this subject but I didn t notice one?
>
> Either online or off is okay.
>
> Hate to think about giving up my DXing hobby with QRO!
>
> 73? George? W8UVZ
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps



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------------------------------

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