[Amps] SB220 Meter blown
g8gsq72 at gmail.com
Mon May 18 16:26:57 EDT 2020
OK, I should have said the diode voltage could be 1.5-2V rather
than 'will be', but I'm happy with the numbers. When adding
something as protection and/or safety, I reckon it's good to work
with worst case values so the circuit is most likely to do what
you want if you need it.
Data for 1N5400 family diodes includes a 'typical' voltage vs
current chart, which shows just over 1.2V drop at 30A. It also
shows 0.9V at 3A whereas the spec. says the drop at 3A can be up
to 1.2V - a third higher. Apply that scaling to the 30A value and
you get 1.6-1.7V drop. Not knowing if the scaling is linear at
different currents I widen the window pessimistically.
Metering - the thing with meter shunts is that they don't change
the voltage needed for FSD. Take a typical 1mA 100ohm meter which
reads FSD with 100mV across its terminals. Want it to read 1A -
add a 0.1ohm resistor in parallel as a shunt (actually 0.1001 ohms
but let's use round figures). The meter reads FSD with 1A flowing
and 100mV across the terminals.
Add the 1N540* in parallel too and apply a glitch. At 30A the
diode typically clamps the voltage at 1.2V - 12x the voltage
needed for FSD and 144x the max. power the shunt has to deal with
in normal operation. My worst case 17x and 300x respectively.
The meter and resistor might survive, but it doesn't feel enough
protection to me. In that situation, you would do better with
MBRB430 or similar, which will clamp at about 0.5V for much lower
In practice, the vast majority of meters indicating current are
actually reading voltage across a current sense resistor. Take our
1mA meter and put 400ohms in series with it. It then reads FSD
with 0.5V across the combination. Now put that across a 0.5ohm
resistor and the whole kaboodle reads FSD with 1A flowing and 0.5V
Now when you add the 1N540* clamping at 1.2V during a 30A glitch,
the meter and resistors are subject to 2.4x overload, or 3.4x in
my pessimistic worst case. I believe it's this configuration Rich
Measures was describing.
On 18/05/2020 10:41, Adrian wrote:
> The shunt resistor is across the meter to set the working range of
> application for the FSD corresponding to the full range of
> , that's why it is called a shunt resistor. The protection diodes
> are in parallel, and so is the meter.
> Your statement is technically incorrect.
> Maximum Forward Voltage Drop per element at 1.0A DC -*1.1*V Once
> it shorts VD falls closer to zero.
> On 18/5/20 6:59 pm, Steve Thompson wrote:
>> Rich was talking about putting diodes across the current
>> measuring resistor, not directly across the meter itself.
>> Typically the resistor generates something in the region of
>> 0.5-2V which the meter reads via a series resistor.
>> Most moving coil movements need less than 10mA and less than
>> 0.2V to go to full scale. A meter which reads higher current
>> without external resistors will almost certainly have an
>> internal shunt. If you're trying to protect a meter with an
>> internal shunt you probably need to look at the biggest Shottky
>> diodes you can afford as they conduct at lower voltages than
>> silicon ones.
>> At 20+A glitch current, the voltage across a 1N5400 type diode
>> will be in the order of 1.5-2V.
>> Steve G8GSQ
>>> The diodes(s) should be direct across the meter, and enough in
>>> series as needed to excedd the full scale deflection
>>> voltage required before forward bias is achieved in the diodes.
>>> It's all very simple, as stated here a few times now. re ;
>>> I would rather follow Rich's advice on the subject as per my
>>> previous link. contained withjin ;
>>> "It may take more than one diode to protect a meter shunt
>>> resistor. A silicon diode begins to conduct at a forward
>>> voltage of about 0.5V. To avoid affecting meter accuracy, the
>>> operating voltage per glitch protection diode should not exceed
>>> 0.5V. For example, a 1 ohm shunt, at a reading of 1A
>>> full-scale, has 1V across it. Thus, two protection diodes in
>>> series would be needed to preserve meter accuracy. Similarly,
>>> if the shunt resistor for a 1A full-scale meter is 1.5 ohm, the
>>> maximum shunt voltage is 1.5V--so three diodes are needed.
>>> Glitch protection diodes should not be petite. Big, ugly diodes
>>> with a peak current rating of 200a or more are best. Smaller
>>> diodes--and the meter they were supposed to be protecting--can
>>> be destroyed during a glitch. Suitable glitch protection diodes
>>> are 1N5400 (50PIV) to 1N5408 (1000PIV). In this application,
>>> PIV is not important. The 1N5400 family of diodes is rated at
>>> 200a for 8.3mS.
>>> During an extremely high current surge, a glitch protection
>>> diode may short out--and by so doing protect the precious
>>> parts. Replacing a shorted protection diode instead of a kaput
>>> meter is almost fun."
>>> ref; http://www.somis.org/D-amplifiers2.html
>>> Once a petite signal diode blows apart it is no longer
>>> protecting the meter.
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