[Amps] Amps Digest, Vol 223, Issue 4
Kevin Adam
n9iww at LIVE.COM
Thu Jul 1 18:34:08 EDT 2021
Ham diode 10kv 15kv qsl advertiser 2000
-----Original Message-----
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Subject: Amps Digest, Vol 223, Issue 4
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Cleaning open frame TR relay (BILL KENNAMER)
2. 1N Diodes (jim.thom jim.thom at telus.net)
3. Re: Cleaning open frame TR relay (Steve Lott)
4. Re: Swan Mark 1 on 160 meters (Peter Voelpel)
5. Swan Mark 1 on 160 meters (jim.thom jim.thom at telus.net)
6. Re: Swan Mark 1 on 160 meters (Jim Brown)
7. Re: 1N Diodes (Adrian)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 16:06:14 +0000 (UTC)
From: BILL KENNAMER <k5fuv at prodigy.net>
To: 'Mark - N5OT' <r-emails at n5ot.com>, "amps at contesting.com"
<amps at contesting.com>, Jeff DePolo <jd0 at broadsci.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Cleaning open frame TR relay
Message-ID: <341582729.127613.1625155574677 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Even printer paper works.
K5FUV
On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 10:48:28 AM CDT, Jeff DePolo <jd0 at broadsci.com> wrote:
> What's the best way to clean the contacts of an open-frame TR relay?
> I'm hoping to just clean the relay without disassembing the amp, but
> the contacts are a little hard to get at.
Start with something non-abrasive like a piece of cardstock.? First run it through dry, then take another clean piece of the same with a drop of IPA or contact cleaner on it.?
If that doesn't do the job, use a aontact burnishing tool.? Jonard is probably the most common.? If you need something small, the disposable type are the way to go as you can cut them into smaller/shorter pieces then grab it with a pair of needle-nose pliers, forceps, or whatever.? After the burnishing tool, run a piece of cardstock with IPA or contact cleaner through just to make sure nothing is left behind.
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? --- Jeff WN3A
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 09:15:20 -0700
From: "jim.thom jim.thom at telus.net" <jim.thom at telus.net>
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: [Amps] 1N Diodes
Message-ID:
<CAB4ZMgso7VotGG2k3Y9orVnwonP9P89Nn1zYXoMfY4PMmi5G-w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 08:08:40 +0800
From: Alek Petkovic <vk6apk at bigpond.com>
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] 1N Diodes
<NO!. Leave the higher voltage rated diode/s in there. Don't go backwards <and risk it failng again.
<As Lou said, be safe and stick 1N5408s in there. They do NOT affect any <thing else in the amp. They just have a much higher rating and safety <factor.
<73, Alek, VK6APK
## The safety diode is wired directly between the B- of the HV filter cap
assy...to the chassis, that's it, done. IF the B+ arcs from anode to
grid, or to the chassis, 1000-5000 vdc of B+ is more than ample to turn
on the diode, regardless of its PIV rating voltage. The diode will
start to conduct with just .5 vdc..and you have way the heck more than
that, you have the full B+ !. Fault path is from B+ to grid /
chassis..then along the chassis, up from the chassis onto the positive (
un-banded) end of the safety diode...then back to the B- of the HV filter
cap assy...completing the loop. Then either the B+ fuse open up, or the
mains breakers open off. A 25-50 ohm resistor should be used in the B+
lead, to limit the fault current to a safe value. IF a HV fuse is used, the fuse should be prior to the 25-50 ohm glitch resistor assy.
## Forget the 1N4001, or 1N4007 junk, they only have like a 30 amp surge rating. The 1N5408 has a 200 amp surge rating..and the 6A10 /
PM-600 series of diodes have a 400 amp surge rating. The 10AO8 has a
600 amp surge rating. I typ will use 2-4 x 6A10's in parallel, all
pointed in the same direction, to make one big diode. Then I end up with a
800-1600 amp surge rated safety diode assy. Then u can cro-bar the B+ till hell freezes over, and they will never fail.
## The puny 1N4002 and 1N4007 with it's 30 amp surge rating is too small for a safety diode. ( u would have to parallel 7 of em to equal a single 1N5408). With no glitch resistor used, there is nothing to limit the fault current. Even a 2500 vdc supply + a 25 / 50 ohm glitch resistor will result in 100 / 50 amp fault current.
When the 1N4002/007 diode fails, it will fail shorted. With the diode shorted, your B- is now bonded to the chassis...via the shorted diode...and your grid + plate current can't be measured.
## Just use the right diode to begin with..and that's not the 1N400X series.
Jim VE7RF
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 11:23:19 -0500
From: Steve Lott <lottsphoto at gmail.com>
To: BILL KENNAMER <k5fuv at prodigy.net>
Cc: Jeff DePolo <jd0 at broadsci.com>, Mark - N5OT <r-emails at n5ot.com>,
"amps at contesting.com" <amps at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Cleaning open frame TR relay
Message-ID:
<CAH1YVzgMT-hJrCqcwMYcxkqsLuqm41DN2d+iaD=9e2UU1v3YQA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
A dollar bill works as well in a clinch
Steve
KG5VK
On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 11:06 AM BILL KENNAMER <k5fuv at prodigy.net> wrote:
> Even printer paper works.
> K5FUV
>
> On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 10:48:28 AM CDT, Jeff DePolo <
> jd0 at broadsci.com> wrote:
>
> > What's the best way to clean the contacts of an open-frame TR relay?
> > I'm hoping to just clean the relay without disassembing the amp, but
> > the contacts are a little hard to get at.
>
> Start with something non-abrasive like a piece of cardstock. First
> run it through dry, then take another clean piece of the same with a
> drop of IPA or contact cleaner on it.
>
> If that doesn't do the job, use a aontact burnishing tool. Jonard is
> probably the most common. If you need something small, the disposable
> type are the way to go as you can cut them into smaller/shorter pieces
> then grab it with a pair of needle-nose pliers, forceps, or whatever.
> After the burnishing tool, run a piece of cardstock with IPA or
> contact cleaner through just to make sure nothing is left behind.
>
> --- Jeff WN3A
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
--
Steve
*KG5VK*
Tele 318-470-9806
ARRL NTX Section Manager
*Please note: My Out Going Email address is LottsPhoto at Gmail.com* *KG5VK at ARRL.ORG <KG5VK at ARRL.ORG> is forwarded to my Gmail address*
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 18:50:09 +0200
From: "Peter Voelpel" <dj7ww at t-online.de>
To: <amps at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Swan Mark 1 on 160 meters
Message-ID: <F0247BFED9DE4C909DE1E641FC30DBC1 at DJ7WWPC1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Fair-Rite does not produce powdered iron cores.
73
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Amps [mailto:amps-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Donnerstag, 1. Juli 2021 11:19
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Swan Mark 1 on 160 meters
On 6/30/2021 7:46 PM, Jim wrote:
> Jim
>
> We were speaking of using toroids for RF TANK CIRCUITS.
>
> Not common mode chokes.
I clearly understand that, and I'm pointing out how you and other
designers can figure out which materials are suitable for THOSE uses,
which are inductive. You clearly did not read or study my post. I
suggest that you carefully study it and use what you learn to study the
Fair-Rite data.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 09:54:46 -0700
From: "jim.thom jim.thom at telus.net" <jim.thom at telus.net>
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: [Amps] Swan Mark 1 on 160 meters
Message-ID:
<CAB4ZMgtPyXg6oJ86FyL4q0uN2Tco-yHnAg2kJwp2VXwxuYNaeA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 02:19:03 -0700
From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps]
On 6/30/2021 7:46 PM, Jim wrote:
> Jim
>
> We were speaking of using toroids for RF TANK CIRCUITS.
>
> Not common mode chokes.
<I clearly understand that, and I'm pointing out how you and other
<designers can figure out which materials are suitable for THOSE uses,
<which are inductive. You clearly did not read or study my post. I
<suggest that you carefully study it and use what you learn to study the
<Fair-Rite data.
<Your post suggests that ALL magnetic materials in toroid form are all
<same, but, in fact, there are HUGE differences between magnetic
<materials made as toroids. We've used resistors with radial leads for a
<century, but all resistors are not the same. And so on.
<73, Jim K9YC
## what's used for 160m tank circuits is powdered iron toroids, type 2.
These are the red ones. Permeability of 10.
## I would like to know the config of W7RY's 8877 amp tank circuit. I'm
assuming it's a HB amp ? On paper, with a shorting switch used, there
should be no issue..when operating on any band. I suspect that on 10m,
coupling is taking place, or perhaps an internal switch resonance issue.
This is the 1st time I have heard of the 160m powdered iron core heating
up, when operating on 10m. I will see if I can find the original thread
from 8 years ago.
Jim VE7RF
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 12:57:01 -0700
From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Swan Mark 1 on 160 meters
Message-ID:
<5103f2b8-936c-28a4-4b76-79d33d4a5683 at audiosystemsgroup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 7/1/2021 8:15 AM, hzp_electronics at juno.com wrote:
> Don't forget that a toroid is a 'one-turn loop' that can couple to other things.
As W8ZR correctly observed, a winding on a ferrite core is
"self-shielded," because the higher mu of the coil causes most of the
field to be contained within the core. The higher the mu at the
frequency of interest, the greater this effect. But as I noted in my
first post in this thread, mu (mu' +j mu'') vary widely with frequency.
Where mu' describes the inductive effect of the core, and mu'' the loss
component.
73, Jim K9YC
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 08:30:36 +1000
From: Adrian <vk4tux at gmail.com>
To: amps at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] 1N Diodes
Message-ID: <0b7ee9fe-1813-1a37-094c-ac0468981444 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
RM, said it best with ;
"Protection diodes should not be petite. Big, ugly diodes with a peak
current rating of 200 A or more are best. I have seen smaller diodes -
and the meter they were supposed to be protecting - literally blown away
by a glitch. After some bitter experiences with lesser diodes, I began
using the 1N5401. In small quantities, the 1N5401 costs about 20 cents
each. It is rated at 200 A for 8.3 ms, 3 A rms, and 100 PIV. Other
diodes from the 1N5400 family will work as well. During an extremely
high current surge, a glitch-protection diode may short out - and, by so
doing, still protect the precious parts. Replacing a shorted protection
diode instead of a blown meter is almost fun.
To prevent the negative HV circuit from spiking to several kilovolts,
connect a string of 200-A (or greater) glitch-protection diodes from the
negative terminal on the high-voltage filter capacitor to chassis. Each
diode will limit the voltage across itself to about 1.5 V. Typically,
three diodes are needed - thus limiting the spike to about 4.5 V. The
diode polarity is with the cathode band toward the negative high
voltage. With one simple wiring change, the same string of diodes can
also protect the grid-current meter and the anode-current meter."
vk4tux
------------------------------
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