[Amps] Alpha 87A Power Supply Question

[Gary Schafer]

Hi Jim,

The Drake L4 does not use a neutral wire when operating on 240 volts. So L1 and L2 should go to the two hot terminals in the amp and the chassis ground terminal should go to the ground wire on the power line.

Even if you wanted to operate that amp on 120 volts you would use the two hot terminals in the amp to supply the 120 volts to and the ground terminal would still go to the ground lead.
You could of course not use that 240 volt wire for 120 volts unless you changed it in the main panel for L1, neutral and ground. 

If you are using an older dryer feed there will be only 3 wires, L1 L2 and a neutral or ground wire. Use the 3rd wire as a ground wire connected to the amp chassis terminal. That 3rd wire goes directly to the mains disconnect panel and is connected directly to ground there. If it was to provide a neutral/ground for the dryer they end up at the same place in the mains panel- ground.
Being that a Drake L4 does not use neutral that 3rd wire should be used as the chassis ground lead.
As long as the amp is the only thing on that line (no dryer plugged in) you have a perfectly legal and safe power line for that amp with no current on the ground lead.

73
Gary K4FMX

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amps [mailto:amps-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
> MU 4CX250B
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2021 7:01 PM
> To: Jeff DePolo
> Cc: Amps group
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Alpha 87A Power Supply Question
> 
> Hi Jeff and Jim,
> I happily defer to your greater knowledge of electrical 
> codes, about which I know very little. I also understand that 
> amateur equipment powered off 240VAC should have four 
> conductor power cords and internal circuitry that separates 
> chassis ground from Neutral. In that circumstance, AC 
> imbalance currents then return safely through the neutral 
> wire, while no load current flows into the ground connection.
> No question that is the ideal setup, to which we should all aspire.
> 
> Unfortunately, the practicalities are quite different. Like 
> it or not, there are thousands of ham amplifiers in active 
> use around the world which violate this ideal by commingling 
> chassis ground and Neutral. My Drake L4B amplifier, for 
> example, is serial number 1670, and dates from about 1980. 
> The schematic diagram for the L4B power supply shows a 
> three-wire power cord, with the wires labeled L1, L2, and Ground.
> The Ground terminal is shown as a hex nut on the power supply 
> enclosure, helpfully labeled “Power Line Ground.” Nowhere is 
> there any mention of a Neutral connection.  I’m guessing that 
> the majority of these 40 year-old amplifiers are still 
> operational.( At least they command a premium price on the 
> used market.)  Plus the thousands of 30S1s, 30L1s, KWS1s, 
> Viking 500s and, National NC2000s, and multitude of other 
> vintage amps and transmitters,
> 
> Realistically, few  amateurs are going to attempt to rewire 
> their vintage gear to conform to modern 4-wire code 
> standards. In many cases, that would be near-impossible. 
> Instead, they have a simple
> question: Is it better to hook the third wire of, say, their 
> Drake power cord to power line Ground, or possibly to a water 
> pipe or ground rod, or maybe connect it to the neutral wire 
> of their three-conductor dryer outlet. Or, if they have a 
> newish home, should they hook it to the Ground terminal of 
> their new dryer outlet with its green conductor, or to the 
> Neutral terminal with its white conductor?
> Frankly, most hams, myself included, don’t know or care much 
> about the electrical code. They want to hook up their radios 
> as easily as possible and as safely as possible. They are 
> less concerned about whether something is “permissible” or 
> not. They won’t answer the doorbell when the electrical 
> inspector comes knocking.
> 
> So, gentlemen, what do recommend they do, given these 
> choices: (A) hook the third wire to Neutral on the outlet 
> box. (B) hook the third wire to Ground on the outlet box, if 
> that terminal exists. (C) hook the third wire to Neutral and 
> ground the amp chassis to a ground rod outside the shack window.
> 
> My pick, given these choices, is (C). I base my choice on 
> understanding the current flow, which I’ve already described, 
> not on some hypothetical code violation. I realize that 
> choice (C) is not perfect. But then, it won’t kill me or 
> cause the house to burn down, either. It is, I believe, the 
> lesser of evils.
> 73,
> Jim W8ZR
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> > On May 4, 2021, at 7:49 PM, Jeff DePolo <jd0 at broadsci.com> wrote:
> > 
> >>
> >> This is an interesting discussion of a topic that recurs 
> frequently. 
> >> I agree with Jim K9YC that house wiring should preferably bond the 
> >> Neutral circuit to Ground at the service entrance, and 
> nowhere else.
> >
> > The main bonding jumper is installed at the service 
> disconnect.  It is not "perferrably" done there,  it is 
> required that it be done there, and only there.  In 
> residential services, it is fairly common to have a "mains" 
> breaker in the panel as the service disconnect means, but 
> that is not always the case.  For example, if you have a 
> breaker or fused disconnect at the meter, then that would be 
> where the main bonding jumper is installed, not in the panel, 
> even if the panel has a "mains" breaker.
> >
> >> Our point of disagreement is whether
> >> we should connect the "third wire" in the amplifier power 
> cord to N 
> >> (my
> >> opinion) or to G (K9YC's opinion).
> >
> > Code is pretty clear - you can't bond neutral to the frame 
> with a few exceptions associated with dedicated legacy 
> circuits for certain appliances, none of which apply in this 
> case.  I you have 120 volt loads within "240 volt" equipment, 
> you need either a 4-wire circuit, or provide the necessary 
> voltage conversion within the equipment via a transformer or 
> otherwise.  In either case, you can't use the neutral as a 
> substitute for the equipment grounding conductor (EGC), and 
> likewise, youc can't bond it to the frame.
> >
> >> If everything is working properly,
> >> the amplifier will work either way, and many users might 
> not notice 
> >> the difference. That said, there are significant safety issues in 
> >> favor of connecting the amp to N and not to G.
> >
> >> The 120/240V circuit feeding the amplifier is a multiwire 
> branch circuit, with both neutral and ground required; you 
> don't get to choose between the two, you need both.
> >
> >> Now consider a typical 240VAC circuit. In the breaker box, 
> there will 
> >> be an L1 conductor (black), an identical L2 conductor (typically 
> >> red), an identical insulated (white) wire, and a fourth 
> bare ground 
> >> wire that is often a lighter gauge.
> >
> > By "lighter gauge", I think you are speaking of the 
> grounding electrode conductor, i.e. the wire that connects 
> the bus bar to the electrode(s) such as  ground rods, water 
> pipes, ufer, etc..  The sizing of that conductor is permitted 
> to be smaller than the service conductors (table 250.66 in 
> NEC if you're interested).  But for the branch circuit to the 
> amplifier, the equipment grounding conductor is going the 
> same as the current-carrying conductors, i.e. 14 AWG for a 
> 15A circuit, 12 AWG for a 20A circuit, and 10 AWG for a 25A 
> or 30A circuit.
> >
> >> In our
> >> hypothetical amplifier, however, which has 120V components (e.g., 
> >> filament xfmrs, blowers) and 240 V components (plate xfmrs), there 
> >> can be significant imbalance. In that case, the neutral 
> wire carries 
> >> the imbalance current, but no current ever flows through 
> the ground wire.
> >
> > That's how it should be.  You need the neutral for the 120V 
> components, and you also separately need the equipment 
> grounding conductor, so a total of 4 wires from the panel to 
> a 4-wire receptacle, and a 4-wire cord from the receptacle to 
> the amplifier.  Inside the amplifier, the EGC gets tied to 
> the chassis, the neutral is the return for the 120V loads, 
> and the 240V loads are across the two legs.
> >
> >> The problem is that older appliances and amplifiers have 
> only three 
> >> wires in their power cords, so do we connect them to L1, 
> L2, N or to 
> >> L1,
> >> L2 G?
> >
> > Replace the power cord with one having all four required conductors.
> >
> > If the problem is the receptacle on the wall is only 
> 3-wire, but there exists both a neutral and an EGC in the box 
> (quite common), replace the 3-wire receptacle with a 4-wire 
> receptacle and use the 4-wire cord above.
> >
> > If the problem is that the branch circuit wiring to the 
> receptacle has two legs and a neutral but no EGC, then you 
> can't use it.  You cannot use the neutral as a substitute for 
> the equipment ground unless it is being re-used for a 
> replacement clothes dryer, range, or oven, and even then, 
> only under a specific set of conditions (NEC 250.140 if 
> you're interested).
> >
> >> It is /always/ better to use L1, L2, N, because we know 
> then that any 
> >> imbalance current will go back to the breaker box through 
> >> appropriately sized insulated wire.
> >
> > That would only apply if it were permissible to let the 
> chassis float.  Note that grounding the amplifier chassis by 
> some means other than through the electrical system is not an 
> acceptable alternative.   What IS permissible, however, is to 
> connect the ground terminal on the receptacle (and the box as 
> well, if it is a metallic box) directly to the grounding 
> electrode system, and then use a 4-wire cord from the 
> receptacle to the amp, with the green wire connected to the 
> amp chassis.  But you can't "skip" grounding the receptacle 
> by tying the amp chassis to ground alone - the receptacle 
> gets grounded first, and then the amplifier cord plugs into 
> the receptacle.
> >
> >> Note that if your house wiring uses a green insulated 
> conductor for 
> >> ground, instead of a bare wire, then then you're probably on safe 
> >> ground (pun intended) using it instead of a white Neutral wire.
> >
> > Using the green wire as a return path for neutral current?  
>  Aside from the obvious code violation, it doesn't solve the 
> fundamental problem of having a chassis that is not grounded.
> >
> >> The reason, of
> >> course, is that the green and white wires are basically in 
> parallel, 
> >> all the way from the electrical outlet to the breaker box, so it 
> >> doesn't make any difference which one you connect to.
> >
> > It certainly does.  Neutral and ground are only 
> equipotential at the point where the two are bonded together. 
>  Anywhere beyond that point, there will be potential on the 
> neutral as a function of conductor resistance and the current 
> through it.  Also consider the case where a neutral goes open 
> - you will have 120 volts on the neutral as soon as a 120V 
> device is plugged in.
> >
> > EGC should never carry current except under fault 
> conditions.  Never ever ever.  And, with the exception of 
> legacy 3-wire (L1, L2, N) fixed appliance circuits noted 
> previously, neutral cannot be used as a replacement or 
> substitute for EGC.
> >
> >                        --- Jeff WN3A
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>