Tom, Doing a Google search, I found several pages refering to the GU-84B as a GU84B/4CX1600 just then, and then also seen some refering to it as a 4CX2500. The very first hits I list below; http://www.nd2x.net/OH3AWW.html GU-84b/4CX1600b PA design 144MHz 1.5KW GU-84b Linear Amplifier Matti Vilppula, OH3AWW, 2003. During the summer 1997 I completed my new GU-84b tetrode power amplifier. ... www.nd2x.net/OH3AWW.html - 29k - Cached - Similar pages [ More results from www.nd2x.net ] and; http://oh3tr.ele.tut.fi/~oh3aww/pa_gu84b/pa_gu84b.htm OH3AWW:n GU-84b/4CX1600b 144 MHz lineaarinen 144 MHz 1.5 kW GU-84b lineaarinen. Kesällä 1997 sain venäläisellä tetrodilla GU-84b tekemäni vahvistimen valmiiksi. Niin tai ainakin toimintakuntoon ... oh3tr.ele.tut.fi/~oh3aww/pa_gu84b/pa_gu84b.htm Then for calling it a 4CX2500A; http://www.classifiedbuyers.com/1036deItemDetail.asp?AdID=33347&BuySell=2&id= ClassifiedBuyers - FREE Classified Ads - No Fraud, No Upfront Fees ... GU-84B/4CX2500A Svetlana. Brand New! The Sockets are sale also. ... The GU-84B is a ceramic-metal forced-air cooled tetrode intended for use in power ... www.classifiedbuyers.com/1036deItemDetail. asp?AdID=33347&BuySell=2&id= and; http://xoomer.virgilio.it/atpaolo/4cx2500.htm CX2500 - [ Translate this page ] Tubo utilizzato, n°1 4CX2500 / GU-84B. Commutazione, relays sotto vuoto alta velocità. Alimentazione, 220 / 240 volt - 3 kw. Dimensioni sezione RF (in mm) ... xoomer.virgilio.it/atpaolo/4cx2500.htm So, which one is it? Emtron says it's has a 2500 watt dissapation but does not call it a 4CX2500. It sounds like some wants to call it one thing and others something else. Best, Will > > I read this today on the amps reflector. > > "On a webpage somewhere, I cant remember now where, I read about > the GU-84B (4CX1600) having an undersized radiator" > > The GU-84B tube is NOT the same tube as the 4cx1600 tube.......they are > entirely different in size, and power output. > > There was a tube called the GU-91B that is almost identical to the 4cx1600b > tube......the only difference being the GU-91B does have a slightly smaller > radiator than the 4cx1600b tube.......The GU-91B WILL WORK IN PLACE OF THE > 4CX1600B TUBE.....The only thing you need to watch out for is that if you do > a lot of continious duty type modes like RTTY or SSTV ect, the GU-91B could > overheat unless you are careful........but for normal SSB useage, the GU91B > will work just fine. > > I hope I have not confused the issues here, (my mind is still a little foggy > after my hospital stay) but if I have got things mixed up please excuse my > mistake. > > 73 > > Tom.....w4th......Tom's Tubes > > > > > > > Tom's Tubes: Amateur Radio Amp Tubes & Sockets, CTHRD Hand Made CW Keys, > K4POZ Screwdriver Antennas & G3SEK Triode/Tetrode Boards & Kits. > http://www.tomstubes.com > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: amps-request@contesting.com > Reply-To: amps@contesting.com > To: amps@contesting.com > Subject: Amps Digest, Vol 31, Issue 35 > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 07:47:12 -0400 > > Send Amps mailing list submissions to > amps@contesting.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > amps-request@contesting.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > amps-owner@contesting.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Amps digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Amps Digest, Vol 31, Issue 34 (K3vw@aol.com) > 2. GU-84B Cooling (Will Matney) > 3. Re: GU-84B Cooling (Dan K9ZF) > 4. Fw: GU-84B Cooling (PA3DUV) > 5. Re: GU-84B Cooling (gdaught6@stanford.edu) > 6. Re: GU-84B Cooling (Will Matney) > 7. Re: GU-84B Cooling (R.Measures) > 8. Re: GU-84B Cooling (R.Measures) > 9. Re: GU-84B Cooling (pa3duv@planet.nl) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:35:41 EDT > From: K3vw@aol.com > Subject: Re: [Amps] Amps Digest, Vol 31, Issue 34 > To: amps@contesting.com > Message-ID: <42.6d6427b6.300e93ed@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Did he run it grounded grid? What is filament voltage/ current of a GU-84B ? > Did he have to build a socket or can you buy them. What is plate disapation > of the 84B ? I think 2500 watts. Willy > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:53:19 -0500 > From: "Will Matney" > Subject: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > To: amps@contesting.com > Message-ID: <20050719195320.5FB054BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > On a webpage somewhere, I cant remember now where, I read about the GU-84B > (4CX1600) having an undersized radiator. I think it was on a Russian amateur > website. What I had read was this tube was actually designed for running in > a missle by the Russians, and was designed for a 1 time use. So, they > undersized the radiator a good bit because of space limitations. They were > making the comparison to a 4CX1500's radiator size being larger in the > discussion. However the guts of the GU-84B supposed to be really good. So > this brings the delima of how to cool it so one would get a long life out of > it. One way would be add some sort of extra aluminum heat fins, or some made > of brass, with fins sticking out to catch more air, thus increasing the > overall surface area. The only other way would be to increase the amount of > air flow and volume over the fins that's there. When doing this though, the > noise goes up from the blower. However, if one is going to dealve into using > the GU-84B, I'd s > uggest looking into this and compare the sizes between its radiator and the > one for the 4CX1500. Even though the tube is cheaper than some others, it's > still expensive if you have to re-tube all the time. If I can remember where > I seen this, I'll post the link. > > Best, > > Will > > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:15:14 -0500 > From: Dan K9ZF > Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > To: Will Matney > Cc: amps@contesting.com > Message-ID: <42DD5F52.7030806@yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Will Matney wrote: > > > So this brings the delima of how to cool it so one would get a > > long life out of it. One way would be add some sort of extra > > aluminum heat fins, or some made of brass, with fins sticking out > > to catch more air, thus increasing the overall surface area. The > > only other way would be to increase the amount of air flow and > > volume over the fins that's there. When doing this though, the > > noise goes up from the blower. > > > > Best, > > > > Will > > > > > > > > Water cool it? > > 73 > Dan > > -- > K9ZF /R no budget Rover ***QRP-l #1269 > Check out the Rover Resource Page at: > List Administrator for: InHam+grid-loc+ham-books > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 23:19:26 +0200 > From: PA3DUV > Subject: [Amps] Fw: GU-84B Cooling > To: amps@contesting.com > Message-ID: <025101c58ca7$8afbc4f0$6c9a390a@TVLT001> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=response > > > Will, > In my twin tube GU84B amp one fan is used to pressurize the subchassis and > two axial fans to draw the air out. > With a B+ of 2900 VDC, from the 3 phase PSU the two GU84B tubes generate an > easy 6 kW of output. During normal (6 dB compressed) SSB transmissions the > exaust air stays below 55 degrees celcius. > Cheers, Dick Knol > PA3DUV > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Will Matney" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:53 PM > > Subject: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > > > > > >> On a webpage somewhere, I cant remember now where, I read about the > >> GU-84B (4CX1600) having an undersized radiator. I think it was on a > >> Russian amateur website. What I had read was this tube was actually > >> designed for running in a missle by the Russians, and was designed for a > >> 1 time use. So, they undersized the radiator a good bit because of space > >> limitations. They were making the comparison to a 4CX1500's radiator size > >> being larger in the discussion. However the guts of the GU-84B supposed > >> to be really good. So this brings the delima of how to cool it so one > >> would get a long life out of it. One way would be add some sort of extra > >> aluminum heat fins, or some made of brass, with fins sticking out to > >> catch more air, thus increasing the overall surface area. The only other > >> way would be to increase the amount of air flow and volume over the fins > >> that's there. When doing this though, the noise goes up from the blower. > >> However, if one is going to dealve into using the GU-84B, I'd s > >> uggest looking into this and compare the sizes between its radiator and > >> the one for the 4CX1500. Even though the tube is cheaper than some > >> others, it's still expensive if you have to re-tube all the time. If I > >> can remember where I seen this, I'll post the link. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Will > >> > >> -- > >> ___________________________________________________________ > >> Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > >> http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Amps mailing list > >> Amps@contesting.com > >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:47:47 -0700 > From: gdaught6@stanford.edu > Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > To: amps@contesting.com > Message-ID: <42DD20A3.19877.1A01FDD@localhost> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > On 19 Jul 2005 at 14:53, Will Matney wrote: > > > On a webpage somewhere, I cant remember now where, I read about the > > GU-84B (4CX1600) having an undersized radiator. I think it was on a > > Russian amateur website. What I had read was this tube was actually > > designed for running in a missle by the Russians, and was designed for > > a 1 time use. So, they undersized the radiator a good bit because of > > space limitations. They were making the comparison to a 4CX1500's > > radiator size being larger in the discussion. However the guts of the > > GU-84B supposed to be really good. So this brings the delima of how to > > cool it so one would get a long life out of it. One way would be add > > some sort of extra aluminum heat fins, or some made of brass, with > > fins sticking out to catch more air, thus increasing the overall > > surface area. The only other way would be to increase the amount of > > air flow and volume over the fins that's there. When doing this > > though, the noise goes up from the blower. > > The radiator is comparatively small. But why not take to heart what > Rich, AG6K, says? "The only time there's too much cooling air is > when it blows the tube out of the socket!" (or something like that.) > > If the blower is too loud, wear headphones. I wear them all the > time. > > 73, > > George T. Daughters, K6GT > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 03:12:04 -0500 > From: "Will Matney" > Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > To: Amps@contesting.com > Message-ID: <20050720081204.3E61C4BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dick, > > I'm not saying it's a bad tube, and dont want none to think that. I just > dont want anyone to undercool the tube so it will last. Who knows, the > 4CX1500 may have an over-sized radiator too! About the only way to tell > about the temp would be to use a thermocouple connected to the anode. Then > the temp read under contesting conditions both under SSB and AM using the > air flow they recommend. AM/CW creates a good bit more load on one as does > SSB transmissions. Then if the temp stays down where it should, one would > know it would be ok. I'm like Rich, and what George mentioned, use the > largest blower possible. Another thing too is maybe mount and external > blower and duct it to the amp. You can set one of these in another room to > help kill the sound down if it's a concern. On yours, you may have the right > combination by using enough fans both pushing and pulling. Have you measured > what the air flow and pressure is on your amp? If so, let us know so we all > have a starting point. > > Best, > > Will > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: PA3DUV > To: "Will Matney" > Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:45:03 +0200 > > > > > Will, > > In my twin tube GU84B amp one fan is used to pressurize the > > subchassis and two axial fans to draw the air out. > > With a B+ of 2900 VDC, from the 3 phase PSU the two GU84B tubes > > generate an easy 6 kW of output. During normal (6 dB compressed) > > SSB transmissions the exaust air stays below 55 degrees celcius. > > Cheers, Dick Knol > > PA3DUV > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Matney" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:53 PM > > Subject: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > > > > > > > On a webpage somewhere, I cant remember now where, I read about > > > the GU-84B (4CX1600) having an undersized radiator. I think it > > > was on a Russian amateur website. What I had read was this tube > > > was actually designed for running in a missle by the Russians, > > > and was designed for a 1 time use. So, they undersized the > > > radiator a good bit because of space limitations. They were > > > making the comparison to a 4CX1500's radiator size being larger > > > in the discussion. However the guts of the GU-84B supposed to be > > > really good. So this brings the delima of how to cool it so one > > > would get a long life out of it. One way would be add some sort > > > of extra aluminum heat fins, or some made of brass, with fins > > > sticking out to catch more air, thus increasing the overall > > > surface area. The only other way would be to increase the amount > > > of air flow and volume over the fins that's there. When doing > > > this though, the noise goes up from the blower. However, if one > > > is going to dealve into using the GU-84B, I'd s > > > uggest looking into this and compare the sizes between its > > > radiator and the one for the 4CX1500. Even though the tube is > > > cheaper than some others, it's still expensive if you have to > > > re-tube all the time. If I can remember where I seen this, I'll > > > post the link. > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Will > > > > > > -- ___________________________________________________________ > > > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > > > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Amps mailing list > > > Amps@contesting.com > > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps > > > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 04:02:10 -0700 > From: R.Measures > Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > To: "Will Matney" > Cc: Amps@contesting.com > Message-ID: <0695c7b77d5d4292cc35d734e726c82b@somis.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > > On Jul 20, 2005, at 1:12 AM, Will Matney wrote: > > > Dick, > > > > I'm not saying it's a bad tube, and dont want none to think that. I > > just dont want anyone to undercool the tube so it will last. Who > > knows, the 4CX1500 may have an over-sized radiator too! About the only > > way to tell about the temp would be to use a thermocouple connected to > > the anode. > > An IR thermometer would work. > > > ... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: PA3DUV > > To: "Will Matney" > > Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:45:03 +0200 > > > >> > >> Will, > >> In my twin tube GU84B amp one fan is used to pressurize the > >> subchassis and two axial fans to draw the air out. > >> With a B+ of 2900 VDC, from the 3 phase PSU the two GU84B tubes > >> generate an easy 6 kW of output. During normal (6 dB compressed) > >> SSB transmissions the exaust air stays below 55 degrees celcius. > >> Cheers, Dick Knol > >> PA3DUV > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Matney" > >> To: > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:53 PM > >> Subject: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > >> > >> > >>> On a webpage somewhere, I cant remember now where, I read about > >>> the GU-84B (4CX1600) having an undersized radiator. I think it > >>> was on a Russian amateur website. What I had read was this tube > >>> was actually designed for running in a missle by the Russians, > >>> and was designed for a 1 time use. So, they undersized the > >>> radiator a good bit because of space limitations. They were > >>> making the comparison to a 4CX1500's radiator size being larger > >>> in the discussion. However the guts of the GU-84B supposed to be > >>> really good. So this brings the delima of how to cool it so one > >>> would get a long life out of it. One way would be add some sort > >>> of extra aluminum heat fins, or some made of brass, with fins > >>> sticking out to catch more air, thus increasing the overall > >>> surface area. The only other way would be to increase the amount > >>> of air flow and volume over the fins that's there. When doing > >>> this though, the noise goes up from the blower. However, if one > >>> is going to dealve into using the GU-84B, I'd s > >>> uggest looking into this and compare the sizes between its > >>> radiator and the one for the 4CX1500. Even though the tube is > >>> cheaper than some others, it's still expensive if you have to > >>> re-tube all the time. If I can remember where I seen this, I'll > >>> post the link. > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> > >>> Will > >>> > >>> -- ___________________________________________________________ > >>> Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > >>> http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Amps mailing list > >>> Amps@contesting.com > >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps > > > > > > -- > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Amps mailing list > > Amps@contesting.com > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps > > > > > > Richard L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734. www.somis.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 04:07:27 -0700 > From: R.Measures > Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > To: Dan K9ZF > Cc: amps@contesting.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > > On Jul 19, 2005, at 1:15 PM, Dan K9ZF wrote: > > > Will Matney wrote: > > > >> So this brings the delima of how to cool it so one would get a long > >> life out of it. One way would be add some sort of extra aluminum heat > >> fins, or some made of brass, with fins sticking out to catch more > >> air, thus increasing the overall surface area. The only other way > >> would be to increase the amount of air flow and volume over the fins > >> that's there. When doing this though, the noise goes up from the > >> blower. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Will > >> > >> > >> > > > > Water cool it? > > Large electric generators are cooled with hydrogen gas, which removes > heat c. 5-times more efficiently than air-cooling. > > > > 73 > > Dan > > > > -- > > K9ZF /R no budget Rover ***QRP-l #1269 > > Check out the Rover Resource Page at: > > List Administrator for: InHam+grid-loc+ham-books > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Amps mailing list > > Amps@contesting.com > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps > > > > > > Richard L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734. www.somis.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:47:04 +0200 > From: pa3duv@planet.nl > Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > To: amps@contesting.com > Message-ID: <18c76a518ce2e4.18ce2e418c76a5@planet.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Van pa3duv@planet.nl > Verstuurd op woensdag, juli 20, 2005 11:49 am > Aan Will Matney > Cc > Bcc > Onderwerp Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > Will, > > Perhaps I could measure the anode cooler temperature with a UV > thermometer. > "Contesting conditions" is a rather vague performance indicator, I > could run the amplifier flat out full carrier for a defined period of > time and then measure the cooler temperature afterwards. > I will set up a measurement session, measuring the pressure in the sub > chassis in mm-H2O and the temperature in degrees Celcius. It is very > difficult to measure the actual airflow without proper anemometers and > a measurement-tube. > > The B+ current is approx. 3.5 amps @ 6000 watt output. The power gain > is approx 20 dB and the output power is adequate. The 3-phase B+ > transformer is switched in a delta configuration, AC voltage between > the phases is approx 390 VAC @ 50 Hz. The airflow noise is of no > concern to me since I always use a headset. I'll get back with some > more detailed measurements later on. > > Cheers, Dick Knol > PA3DUV > > > > ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- > Van: Will Matney > Datum: woensdag, juli 20, 2005 10:12 am > Onderwerp: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > > > Dick, > > > > I'm not saying it's a bad tube, and dont want none to think that. > > I just dont want anyone to undercool the tube so it will last. Who > > knows, the 4CX1500 may have an over-sized radiator too! About the > > only way to tell about the temp would be to use a thermocouple > > connected to the anode. Then the temp read under contesting > > conditions both under SSB and AM using the air flow they > > recommend. AM/CW creates a good bit more load on one as does SSB > > transmissions. Then if the temp stays down where it should, one > > would know it would be ok. I'm like Rich, and what George > > mentioned, use the largest blower possible. Another thing too is > > maybe mount and external blower and duct it to the amp. You can > > set one of these in another room to help kill the sound down if > > it's a concern. On yours, you may have the right combination by > > using enough fans both pushing and pulling. Have you measured what > > the air flow and pressure is on your amp? If so, let us know so we > > all have a starting point. > > > > Best, > > > > Will > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: PA3DUV > > To: "Will Matney" > > Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:45:03 +0200 > > > > > > > > Will, > > > In my twin tube GU84B amp one fan is used to pressurize the > > > subchassis and two axial fans to draw the air out. > > > With a B+ of 2900 VDC, from the 3 phase PSU the two GU84B tubes > > > generate an easy 6 kW of output. During normal (6 dB compressed) > > > SSB transmissions the exaust air stays below 55 degrees celcius. > > > Cheers, Dick Knol > > > PA3DUV > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Matney" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:53 PM > > > Subject: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling > > > > > > > > > > On a webpage somewhere, I cant remember now where, I read > > about > > > > the GU-84B (4CX1600) having an undersized radiator. I think it > > > > was on a Russian amateur website. What I had read was this > > tube > > > > was actually designed for running in a missle by the Russians, > > > > and was designed for a 1 time use. So, they undersized the > > > > radiator a good bit because of space limitations. They were > > > > making the comparison to a 4CX1500's radiator size being > > larger > > > > in the discussion. However the guts of the GU-84B supposed to > > be > > > > really good. So this brings the delima of how to cool it so > > one > > > > would get a long life out of it. One way would be add some > > sort > > > > of extra aluminum heat fins, or some made of brass, with fins > > > > sticking out to catch more air, thus increasing the overall > > > > surface area. The only other way would be to increase the > > amount > > > > of air flow and volume over the fins that's there. When doing > > > > this though, the noise goes up from the blower. However, if > > one > > > > is going to dealve into using the GU-84B, I'd s > > > > uggest looking into this and compare the sizes between its > > > > radiator and the one for the 4CX1500. Even though the tube is > > > > cheaper than some others, it's still expensive if you have to > > > > re-tube all the time. If I can remember where I seen this, > > I'll > > > > post the link. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > Will > > > > > > > > -- ___________________________________________________________ > > > > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > > > > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Amps mailing list > > > > Amps@contesting.com > > > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps > > > > > > -- > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Amps mailing list > > Amps@contesting.com > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Amps mailing list > Amps@contesting.com > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps > > > End of Amps Digest, Vol 31, Issue 35 > ************************************ > > > _______________________________________________ > Amps mailing list > Amps@contesting.com > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm