From everettsharp at aol.com Sat Nov 18 10:00:31 2017 From: everettsharp at aol.com (Everett Sharp) Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 09:00:31 -0600 Subject: [Antennaware] 160 meter FCP Message-ID: <157D75A1-89CD-4969-9AF7-08B4F250187C@aol.com> Well Guys, Just joined the list and have been operating on 160 Meters now for about 2 weeks. The antenna is Inverted L, which is 52? vertical and 103? horizontal. Currently have 4, on the ground, 1/4 wave radials/with ground rod. The system works much better than expected. However, I plan on upgrading to a FCP and should have it up and running in a week, or so. My problem is I will have to run part of the FCP through some high bushes on one side. Also the ground drops off, by a lot, on one half of the planed counterpose. So my thinking is to use insulated wire, even though it is not recommended, because the FCP will have to make contact with the bushes on one 1/2 of it for a short distance (any thoughts?). The side where I will have to pass through the bushes is the side where the ground drops off and the far end will be 15?, or so above the ground. The other half will be 8? above the ground. So do I need to bend the one half of the FCP to maintain the same distance above the ground, or keep it level? Half of the FCP will be at 8?, or so with the middle at 8? and the far end of the other side a 15? AGL. Any help, or recommendation will be greatly appreciated. I have wound the 1:1 transformer on a T300-D2 core, so that part is done. Everett N4CY Sent from my iPad From k2av.guy at gmail.com Sat Nov 18 14:56:30 2017 From: k2av.guy at gmail.com (Guy Olinger K2AV) Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 19:56:30 +0000 Subject: [Antennaware] 160 meter FCP In-Reply-To: <157D75A1-89CD-4969-9AF7-08B4F250187C@aol.com> References: <157D75A1-89CD-4969-9AF7-08B4F250187C@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Everett, Have you read k2av.com [Placing an FCP] ? And had a look at k2av.com [Loss List] ? An FCP?s most important aspect is avoiding loss factors. Going through bushes or through tree branches puts very high magnetic fields right next to wood, inducing dielectric loss in the wood. Insulation keeps it from shorting, maybe, but only increases loss. Use #12 bare wire and #11 standard wall Teflon tubing pushed over it if you absolutely *must* route the FCP that way (decidedly *not* recommended). Note that the voltages on the last fold, closest to the insulated end of the FCP, get pretty high. See the section on 160-80 dual banding which refers to the voltages on the FCP at QRO. Note that the web page recommends a five foot radius tunnel (10 foot diameter) free of vegetation and other dielectric materials around the FCP. Uneven height above ground is not an issue. The *minimum* height above ground along the FCP?s length is an issue. Keep the FCP in the plane at right angles to the vertical wire, at the same altitude above sea level, regardless of terrain. Remember you are *fighting loss* which hamdom at large seems mostly unaware of. Think of ?death by a thousand paper cuts? as you work on loss. A bunch of small avoidances can add up to a big one. 73, Guy K2AV On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 10:02 AM Everett Sharp via Antennaware < antennaware at contesting.com> wrote: > Well Guys, > > Just joined the list and have been operating on 160 Meters now for about 2 > weeks. The antenna is Inverted L, which is 52? vertical and 103? > horizontal. Currently have 4, on the ground, 1/4 wave radials/with ground > rod. The system works much better than expected. However, I plan on > upgrading to a FCP and should have it up and running in a week, or so. My > problem is I will have to run part of the FCP through some high bushes on > one side. Also the ground drops off, by a lot, on one half of the planed > counterpose. > > So my thinking is to use insulated wire, even though it is not > recommended, because the FCP will have to make contact with the bushes on > one 1/2 of it for a short distance (any thoughts?). The side where I will > have to pass through the bushes is the side where the ground drops off and > the far end will be 15?, or so above the ground. The other half will be 8? > above the ground. So do I need to bend the one half of the FCP to maintain > the same distance above the ground, or keep it level? Half of the FCP will > be at 8?, or so with the middle at 8? and the far end of the other side a > 15? AGL. > > Any help, or recommendation will be greatly appreciated. I have wound the > 1:1 transformer on a T300-D2 core, so that part is done. > > Everett N4CY > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Antennaware mailing list > Antennaware at contesting.com > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/antennaware > -- Sent via Gmail Mobile on my iPhone From everettsharp at aol.com Sat Nov 18 15:54:52 2017 From: everettsharp at aol.com (Everett Sharp) Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 14:54:52 -0600 Subject: [Antennaware] 160 meter FCP In-Reply-To: References: <157D75A1-89CD-4969-9AF7-08B4F250187C@aol.com> Message-ID: <7D99E647-01AB-460F-BA79-1FFC7451FB56@aol.com> Guy, Thanks for the reply and I did read all of the material on your web site, a lot of very good info. I will go with your recombination of staying with 12 gage bare wire and incorporate your suggestion of slipping Teflon sleeve over the wire where it pass through the Leyland Cypress. One thing you said and I was not clear on was you were saying run the FCP at a right angle. My only option is to run the FCP parallel to horizontal part of the inverted L, with 1/2 of it under it and the other half on the back side of it, but still parallel to it. From all I have read it looks like the FCP is my best option, as my only other option, other than what I have, is to run 2 raised radials, no way to get 4 of them. With my current system, with the 4 radials on the ground and a earth ground I am using the 1:1 transformer on the T300-D2 core, however, it is no longer 1:1. I am using 20 turns (10 uH) on the 50 ohm side and 35 turns (37 uH) between the ground system, 235 pF cap and the inverted L. This gives me a 1.2:1 SWR at the antenna system at 1,840 KHz with the J0 at 1,845 KHz. It maybe rather unorthodox, but it works, as I worked 3 European stations last night. Hopefully I will see better results with the FCP. Everett N4CY Sent from my iPad > On Nov 18, 2017, at 1:56 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: > > Hi Everett, > > Have you read k2av.com [Placing an FCP] ? And had a look at k2av.com [Loss List] ? > > An FCP?s most important aspect is avoiding loss factors. Going through bushes or through tree branches puts very high magnetic fields right next to wood, inducing dielectric loss in the wood. Insulation keeps it from shorting, maybe, but only increases loss. > > Use #12 bare wire and #11 standard wall Teflon tubing pushed over it if you absolutely *must* route the FCP that way (decidedly *not* recommended). Note that the voltages on the last fold, closest to the insulated end of the FCP, get pretty high. See the section on 160-80 dual banding which refers to the voltages on the FCP at QRO. > > Note that the web page recommends a five foot radius tunnel (10 foot diameter) free of vegetation and other dielectric materials around the FCP. > > Uneven height above ground is not an issue. The *minimum* height above ground along the FCP?s length is an issue. Keep the FCP in the plane at right angles to the vertical wire, at the same altitude above sea level, regardless of terrain. > > Remember you are *fighting loss* which hamdom at large seems mostly unaware of. Think of ?death by a thousand paper cuts? as you work on loss. A bunch of small avoidances can add up to a big one. > > 73, Guy K2AV > >> On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 10:02 AM Everett Sharp via Antennaware wrote: >> Well Guys, >> >> Just joined the list and have been operating on 160 Meters now for about 2 weeks. The antenna is Inverted L, which is 52? vertical and 103? horizontal. Currently have 4, on the ground, 1/4 wave radials/with ground rod. The system works much better than expected. However, I plan on upgrading to a FCP and should have it up and running in a week, or so. My problem is I will have to run part of the FCP through some high bushes on one side. Also the ground drops off, by a lot, on one half of the planed counterpose. >> >> So my thinking is to use insulated wire, even though it is not recommended, because the FCP will have to make contact with the bushes on one 1/2 of it for a short distance (any thoughts?). The side where I will have to pass through the bushes is the side where the ground drops off and the far end will be 15?, or so above the ground. The other half will be 8? above the ground. So do I need to bend the one half of the FCP to maintain the same distance above the ground, or keep it level? Half of the FCP will be at 8?, or so with the middle at 8? and the far end of the other side a 15? AGL. >> >> Any help, or recommendation will be greatly appreciated. I have wound the 1:1 transformer on a T300-D2 core, so that part is done. >> >> Everett N4CY >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Antennaware mailing list >> Antennaware at contesting.com >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/antennaware > > -- > Sent via Gmail Mobile on my iPhone