[CCF] Fwd: Assisted vs non-Assisted
Ilmo Anttila
ilmo.anttila at qualisys.fi
Wed Apr 6 02:15:54 EDT 2016
Minulla on sellainen mielikuva, että syy näiden kahden luokan synnyttämisen
välillä oli aikoinaan puutteellisissa nettiyhteyksissä monissa
mielenkiintoisissa kisailumaissa. Kilpailijoita ei asetettu eriarvoiseen
asemaan nettiyhteyden osalta. Luotiin siis eri luokat kisassa.
Nyt tämä syy ei kai enää ole relevantti, joten luokat voisi yhdistää tämän
argumentin osalta.
Toisaalta kisan luonne muuttuisi, kun kaikki käyttävät klusteria. Syntyisi
entistä rajumpia hetkittäisiä pileuppeja, kun uusi kerroin tulee bandille.
Siinä mellakassa pärjää vain isolla teholla ja härskillä käytöksellä.
73
Ilmo, OH2BO
-----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
Lähettäjä: CCF [mailto:ccf-bounces at contesting.com] Puolesta Jari Jokiniemi
Lähetetty: 6. huhtikuutata 2016 7:09
Vastaanottaja: ccf
Aihe: Re: [CCF] Fwd: Assisted vs non-Assisted
Hämmentävää, että jopa laaja-alaista eurooppalaista näkemystä ymmärtävien
suomalaistenkin kilpailijoiden keskuudessa esiintyy edes mikrosekunnin ajan
tekopyhäamerikkalainen ajatus siitä, että assisted- ja classic-luokat
pitäisi yhdistää siksi, että ei enää jakseta metsästää huijareita.
Nehän pitää yhdistää siksi, että koko jako assisted- ja classic-luokkiin on
ollut lähtökohtaisesti täysin aivovammainen jo reilusti viime vuosituhannen
puolella. Itse asiassa jo ennen koko säännön synnyttämistä.
Ja kyseisen säännön noudattamisen valvominen ei suinkaan ole koskaan ollut
radiokilpailutoimintaa ja sen moraalia edistävää toimintaa. Vaan täysin
päinvastoin, koko säännön valvominen on ollut haitallista toimintaa, josta
pitäisi rangaista. Valvojaa. Sillä monikaan asia ei yhtä tehokkaasti rapauta
moraalia tehokkaasti kuin järjettömän säännön täytäntöönpano.
Vähän sama juttu, kuin orjien palauttaminen omistajilleen, jos sallitte
vertauksen.
-Jari, OH3BU
jari.ojala at kotinet.com kirjoitti 06.04.2016 kello 05:44:
> Tuohan olisi hyvä idea, mutta pitäisi poistaa HP, ja jättää vain 100W
> ja pienemmät luokat. Bandeistä tulisi paljon mielyttävämpiä kisojen
> aikana....
>
> No eihän se muuttaisi juuri mitään Lienee nykyisin aika yleinen
> vähintään 3 dB:n ylitys HP luokassa, desibeleinä luku kasvaisi vaan
> 18-20 dB:n luokkaan ;)
>
> Aikoinaan joidenkin piti saada kisailu jämähtämään kivikaudelle,
> tekniikan pitäisi antaa tulla vapaasti mukaan.
>
> Jari 8LQ
>
>
>
>
> Kim Östman kirjoitti 5.4.2016 22:17:
> > :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Niin, meinaan vaan että jos SOU:ta ollaan poistamassa ja laittamassa
> > kaikki samaan luokkaan sen takia, että ollaan väsytty huijarijahtiin
> > (ja sen takiahan SOU halutaan poistaa, ei sen ylläpitämisessä SOA:n
> > rinnalla mitään muuta ongelmaa oikeasti ole), niin johdonmukaisuuden
> > vuoksi tulisi sitten poistaa myös eri teholuokat. Eikö vaan?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Jukka Klemola [mailto:jpklemola at gmail.com]
> > Sent: 5. huhtikuuta 2016 22:13
> > To: Kim Östman <kim.ostman at abo.fi>
> > Cc: ccf <ccf at contesting.com>
> > Subject: Re: [CCF] Fwd: Assisted vs non-Assisted
> >
> >
> >
> > Tuohan se vasta uutinen olisi.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2016-04-05 21:59 GMT+03:00 Kim Östman <kim.ostman at abo.fi
> > <mailto:kim.ostman at abo.fi> >:
> >
> > Moi,
> >
> > Ollaanko teholuokkia myös poistamassa samalla, jos/kun SO-unassisted
> > poistetaan? QRP/LP pois ja kaikki HP/EP-luokkaan? ;)
> >
> > 73
> > Kim
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: CCF [mailto:ccf-bounces at contesting.com
> > <mailto:ccf-bounces at contesting.com> ] On Behalf Of Jukka Klemola
> > Sent: 5. huhtikuuta 2016 16:14
> > To: ccf <ccf at contesting.com <mailto:ccf at contesting.com> >
> > Subject: Re: [CCF] Fwd: Assisted vs non-Assisted
> >
> > Se alkaa olemaan julkista, että assisted kategoriasta tosiaan
> > keskustellaan CQ WW sisällä.
> > Arvelin että tämä lienee uutinen monelle.
> >
> > 73,
> > Jukka OH6LI
> >
> > 2016-04-05 16:10 GMT+03:00 Kim Östman <kim.ostman at abo.fi
> > <mailto:kim.ostman at abo.fi> >:
> >
> >> Moi,
> >>
> >> Saisiko tarkennusta: mikä alkaa olla julkista?
> >>
> >> Randyn lausahdus "It is only CQ, ARRL ..." on hieman erikoinen.
> >> Kyse on sentään "vain" maailman suurimmista ja merkittävimmistä
> >> kisoista :)
> >>
> >> 73
> >> Kim
> >>
> >>
> >> Lainaus Jukka Klemola <jpklemola at gmail.com
> >> <mailto:jpklemola at gmail.com> >:
> >>
> >> Nyt tämä alkaa olemaan julkista ..
> >>> Huomatkaa että SAC esitetään maailman foorumilla.
> >>>
> >>> 73,
> >>> Jukka OH6LI
> >>>
> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>> From: Randy Thompson K5ZD
> >>> ...
> >>>
> >>> There is another option... Rather than continue to get twisted in
> >>> defining the separation, we could merge SO and SOA into one and
> >>> remove all confusion.
> >>> There could be an overlay category for the guys who want to
> >>> compare themselves to other "classic" ops.
> >>>
> >>> It seems only CQ, ARRL, and SAC maintain the assisted concept.
> >>> The rest of the world has moved on.
> >>>
> >>> Randy, K5ZD
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com
> >>>> <mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com> ] On Behalf Of Paul
> >>>> O'Kane
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 12:26 PM
> >>>> To: cq-contest at contesting.com <mailto:cq-contest at contesting.com>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] cqcontest.net <http://cqcontest.net>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 05/04/2016 11:54, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > Sorry, Ron, but I totally disagree. If it doesn't *assist*
> >>>> > someone
> to
> >>>> > watch a scoreboard without band breakdown information (and it
> >>>> > doesn't), then it is not *assistance*.
> >>>>
> >>>> We're going round in circles here with everyone interpreting
> >>>> "assist", "assistance" and "Assisted"
> >>>> as they, personally, think it should be defined.
> >>>>
> >>>> All relevant technology assists.
> >>>>
> >>>> The main difference between the "Assisted" and "Unassisted"
> >>>> categories
> >>>> has always been whether you connect to external networks to
> >>>> improve your score or gain a competitive advantage.
> >>>>
> >>>> That's why, IMHO, the categories should change to Connected and
> >>>> Unconnected. That would appear to remove most uncertainty and
> >>>> ambiguity.
> >>>>
> >>>> * You use the cluster - you're Connected.
> >>>> * You use the RBN - you're Connected.
> >>>> * You use real-time scoreboards, or any other
> >>>> networked technology, to influence or
> >>>> modify your strategy - you're Connected.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's really simple - you're either Connected or Unconnected.
> >>>>
> >>>> I know and accept that local decoders and skimmer- like
> >>>> technology would continue to be "Connected".
> >>>> That's why I referred to "the main difference"
> >>>> above.
> >>>>
> >>>> 73,
> >>>> Paul EI5DI
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> >
> >>>> > 73, Pete N4ZR
> >>>> > Download the new N1MM Logger+ at <http://N1MM.hamdocs.com>.
> >>>> > Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
> >>>> > <http://reversebeacon.net>, now spotting RTTY activity
> >>>> > worldwide.
> >>>> > For spots, please use your favorite "retail" DX cluster.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > On 4/5/2016 12:52 AM, Fco. Luis Delgadillo wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Enviado desde mi Huawei de Telcel Ron A couple of questions:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Have you tried yourself the live scoreboard.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> The Best way to finding out, is perhaps, if you try the
> >>>> >> scoreboard and then have an informed opinion - to discern
> >>>> >> facts from gut
> >>>> feelings?
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> -------- Mensaje original --------
> >>>> >> Asunto: Re: [CQ-Contest] cqcontest.net <http://cqcontest.net>
> >>>> >> De: Ron Notarius W3WN
> >>>> >> Para: 'Pete Smith N4ZR' ,'CQ Contest'
> >>>> >> CC:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> But here's the thing Pete.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> When you receive that information. how did you get it? Where
did
> >>>> >> it come
> >>>> >> from? You said yourself. "You must decide to post your score"
> and
> >>>> >> what
> >>>> >> other information is to be posted for use by other operators.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> So ultimately, the answer is. it came from other operators
> >>>> >> who
> are
> >>>> >> posting
> >>>> >> that information. How is that not assisted?
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Look, I don't have a problem with the scoreboard or similar
> >>>> >> exchanges of
> >>>> >> information. I'm not saying that the software that provides
the
> >>>> >> capability
> >>>> >> should be disabled.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Just please don't tell me that it's not "assisted" and using
it
> >>>> >> doesn't put
> >>>> >> you into an Assisted or equivalent operating category. It is.
> (Or
> >>>> >> to put
> >>>> >> it in the vernacular, don't spill a drink on my slacks and
then
> >>>> >> tell me it's
> >>>> >> raining.)
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Sometimes I operate Single Op/Assisted. Sometimes I don't. The
> >>>> >> reasons why
> >>>> >> vary depending on the event in question and how I am choosing
to
> >>>> >> approach
> >>>> >> it. I'm comfortable with either category these days. I
> >>>> >> just
> don't
> >>>> >> pretend
> >>>> >> one is the other. And I don't ask that the line between them
be
> >>>> >> blurred.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Either you are assisted. or you aren't. It is that simple.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> 73, ron w3wn
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> _____
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> From: Pete Smith N4ZR [mailto:n4zr at contesting.com
> <mailto:n4zr at contesting.com> ]
> >>>> >> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 4:01 PM
> >>>> >> To: Ron Notarius W3WN; CQ Contest
> >>>> >> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] cqcontest.net
> >>>> >> <http://cqcontest.net>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Ron, at least in the case of cqcontest.net
> <http://cqcontest.net> and users of MM+, this
> >>>> >> isn't
> >>>> >> true. You must decideB to post your score, and you can
> >>>> >> decide
> (in
> >>>> >> MM+)
> >>>> >> whether or not to include a band breakdown.B Without band
> >>>> >> information,
> >>>> >> access to this resource is nothing but fun, and should not be
> >>>> >> considered
> >>>> >> assistance.B Perhaps the sponsors could voluntarily
> >>>> >> disable the
> >>>> band
> >>>> >> breakdown display during contest weekends, and the whole issue
> >>>> >> would go
> >>>> >> away.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> 73, Pete N4ZR
> >>>> >> Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
> >>>> >> . Check
> >>>> >> out the Reverse Beacon Network at
> >>>> >> , now
> >>>> >> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> >>>> >> For spots, please use your favorite
> >>>> >> "retail" DX cluster.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> On 4/4/2016 8:16 AM, Ron Notarius W3WN wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> ...The scoreboard is directly based on spotting information.
> >>>> >> Therefore,
> >>>> >> information derived from it is (IMHO) assistance for the
> purposes
> >>>> >> of most
> >>>> >> contests that recognize this category.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> ---
> >>>> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
> >>>> software.
> >>>> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>>> >> CQ-Contest at contesting.com <mailto:CQ-Contest at contesting.com>
> >>>> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
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> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
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