Phasing_Tribanders_Replies

barry at w2up.wells.com barry at w2up.wells.com
Sun Feb 20 14:56:39 EST 1994


Here is original message I posted and (edited) replies received:

I'm considering adding a second TH7 half-way up my 75 ft tower, 
and phasing them. I'd appreciate any comments on the following:
1. Pros/cons of DX Engineering universal phasing box
2. Specifics on using the TH7 with a TIC RING rotor (from what I've
   heard the matching network gets in the way at the attachment site.
   Also, how do you support the boom truss with this rotor?
3. Is "polarity" of the balun an issue? What I mean is it possible
   have one balun 180 out of phase with the other if the windings
   or connections are consistent between the two of them. (Pardon
   my ignorance on the workings of the balun)

Any comments appreciated. 73 de Barry


Barry N. Kutner, W2UP       Usenet/Internet: barry at w2up.wells.com
Newtown, PA                 Packet Radio: W2UP @ WB3JOE.#EPA.PA.USA.NA
                            Packet Cluster: W2UP >K2TW (FRC)
.......................................................................



I'm considering adding a second TH7 half-way up my 75 ft tower,
and phasing them. I'd appreciate any comments on the following:
1. Pros/cons of DX Engineering universal phasing box
_______________________________________________________

I've used the DX Eng boxes extensively at AA6TT and K9RS (and 
help maintain the station at K9RS).  They're very well built, 
reliable, easy-to-use, etc.  Only failure was after a direct
lightning hit last year (also took out about $5k of electronics).

Note:
If you don't need the A/B/both options and don't mind keeping the
antennas always in parallel, DX engineering will sell you just the 
matching transformer for about $40.  


Good luck.
   Bruce  AA5B
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry, you may want to talk to Don Binkley, N4ZZ. He is not on internet but his 
home phone number is (615) 883-8111.  He has a 95' Rohn 45 tower with a pair of 
phased TH-7s. The lower one is fed via phasing box and is rotated using a TIC 
ring-rotor.  His set-up works pretty well based on results.  He just put it up 
within the past 2-3 years and probably could answer a lot of your questions.

					73,  Mark  K0EJ
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry -

I have two TH7's at 86 and 54 and they work substantially better than the top one alone.  Filling in the elevation lobes on 15 and 10 made the difference between having one good hour to EU on each band and having pileups all day.  Obviously my 10 meter experience is limited but 15 was phenomenal in the CQWW,

The ring rotor is very nice.  I have only had it up one winter but it appears that my solution to mounting the truss and matching system seems to work.  I can draw it if you want.  I think that Todd at TIC has another scheme as well.

The balun phasing is important and I scrapped the BN-86's. 

73, Tom
georgens at emc.com or w2sc at emc.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Pros/cons of DX Engineering universal phasing box


I would like to hear about the responses to this one.


2. Specifics on using the TH7 with a TIC RING rotor (from what I've
   heard the matching network gets in the way at the attachment site.
   Also, how do you support the boom truss with this rotor?

Supporting the boom truss is easy.  Buy a muffler clamp and a piece of
2 or 3 foot angle iron.  Drill 2 holes in the angle iron to fit the
muffler clamp.  Attach muffler clamp to boom and thru the angle iron holes.
Support the truss from the top end of the angle iron.


3. Is "polarity" of the balun an issue? What I mean is it possible
   have one balun 180 out of phase with the other if the windings
   or connections are consistent between the two of them. (Pardon
   my ignorance on the workings of the balun)


Yes polarity is an issue !  Watch out.  You may have to run your baluns thru
an x-ray machine to determine which terminal is which.  I suspect you can find
an x-ray machine to use for this purpose.

I would like a copy of the answers you receive, since I am planning on
phasing KT-34XA's this spring (65 ft and 115 ft).

73,
Steve, N2IC/0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, polarity of balun is important.

Are you doing this so you can be 3 db louder or so you can be in two
directions at once?  Obviously if the antennas will be pointing different
directions, exact phasing is less of an issue.

I use two antennas that are on different towers and make no attempt at
phase matching.  I use a separate amp for each one and do the power splitting
at the output of the rig.  Some relays are used to determine if I am 
20 db over in Japan, or 20 db over in Europe, or 17 db over in both.
(My exciter is a TS-850S and when half of it's drive goes to each amp,
each amp runs half power).  The power splitting is easier to do when you
are dealing with 50 Ohm amplifier inputs than unknown antenna impedances.

You may not be able to apply this to your application, but I thought I 
would share it with you.  I find in a contest having the flexibility of
two directions is a much more important factor than having a couple 
extra db in one direction.

Good luck with your installation!!

Tree N6T
oops N6TR
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

hi barry. just wanted to pass along my method for supporting the
boom truss.  hygain sez attach a clamp to the mast for the truss.
my system is to get a 4 ft length of punched out angle iron, the
kind you can get at the hardware store that has a bunch of 
oval holes punched in it, and attach that to the boom to mast 
clamp. i truss up the boom before i even raise the antenna. 
with this system the truss is independant of the mast, so it will
work ok i think with the tie.  73, walt, w0cp

----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hope this info is of benefit. 73 Barry W2UP


Barry N. Kutner, W2UP       Usenet/Internet: barry at w2up.wells.com
Newtown, PA                 Packet Radio: W2UP @ WB3JOE.#EPA.PA.USA.NA
                            Packet Cluster: W2UP >K2TW (FRC)
.......................................................................

>From barry at w2up.wells.com (Barry Kutner)  Mon Feb 21 19:52:10 1994
From: barry at w2up.wells.com (Barry Kutner) (Barry Kutner)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 19:52:10 GMT
Subject: ARRL CW score
Message-ID: <N254Hc1w165w at w2up.wells.com>

40 meter single band
662 Qs 102 countries = 202,572

Poor condx. Worked out Europe by 8 PM Sat. Morning openings to Pacific/
Asia poor.
73 Barry


Barry N. Kutner, W2UP       Usenet/Internet: barry at w2up.wells.com
Newtown, PA                 Packet Radio: W2UP @ WB3JOE.#EPA.PA.USA.NA
                            Packet Cluster: W2UP >K2TW (FRC)
.......................................................................


>From oo7 at astro.as.utexas.edu (Derek Wills)  Mon Feb 21 21:18:44 1994
From: oo7 at astro.as.utexas.edu (Derek Wills) (Derek Wills)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 15:18:44 CST
Subject: 5NN
Message-ID: <9402212118.AA08653 at astro.as.utexas.edu>

To me, the 5nn is just something that says "start listening, I
am about to send you my power/zone/whatever".  I have given
a 595 on occasion to someone whose rig was deteriorating at
the end of a contest, but I'm sure it's written down as 599.

Yes, the 599 is silly, but so are contests and many of the
other things we do...

Derek aa5bt

>From Rick, K7GM" <AONISWAN at ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU  Mon Feb 21 21:50:58 1994
From: Rick, K7GM" <AONISWAN at ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU (Rick, K7GM)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 16:50:58 EST
Subject: ARRL DX Score/observations

K7GM/4   North Carolina
         Single Op, Unassisted.  Low Power


     160     6    6               Barefoot TS940S
      80    67   39               Vertical for 80
      40   359   83               Cushcraft 2 ele 40 at 85'
      20   354   73               KT34XA at 70'
      15   376   70
      10    66   36
          ----  ---
          1228  307     1,130,988

     As I mentioned to Doug on 75 last night, everyone was complaining
about the lousy conditions.  Having recently moved (back) to the east
coast after almost 20 years of west coast (Idaho/Arizona) contesting,
I found the conditions GREAT.  I guess everything is relative.
     The S92SS 15 meter pileup was huge, as was the SU2MT 80 meter
pileup (got 'em both).  A71CW came back to a 40 meter CQ (almost fell
off my chair) for an all time new one.
     Loaded up my 40 meter beam on 160 to get my Qs there (you can
do that when you are barefoot).
     If anyone hears what W1PH, W2TZ, or K7SV did (I assume they were
all low power again this year), let me know.

                      73, Rick, K7GM

>From Rick, K7GM" <AONISWAN at ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU  Mon Feb 21 22:06:33 1994
From: Rick, K7GM" <AONISWAN at ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU (Rick, K7GM)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 17:06:33 EST
Subject: EI9J

     I just read in the 160 meter bulletin that EI9J is an SK at
age 81.  There was a great CW op.  I remember well his contest operations
in the late 70s and early 80s.  A fine gentleman and a great contester.
Sorry to see the passing of another one.

                                     Rick, K7GM

>From George Cutsogeorge <0006354141 at mcimail.com>  Mon Feb 21 20:32:00 1994
From: George Cutsogeorge <0006354141 at mcimail.com> (George Cutsogeorge)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 15:32 EST
Subject: W2VJN ARRL CW
Message-ID: <81940221203218/0006354141PK4EM at mcimail.com>

ARRL CW SCORE: W2VJN UMPQUA, OREGON.  SINGLE OP, HIGH POWER, 24 HOURS.

		Q		C
160		0		0
80		62		15
40		252		54
20		157		55
15		309		42
10		79		26
_______________________________________

TOTALS=		859		192

SCORE=		494,784

GEAR=	IC-765, TITAN
ANTENNAS=	LOW DIPOLES 

First semi-serious effort from the west coast.

George

>From Steve Merchant <merchant at crl.com>  Mon Feb 21 23:10:03 1994
From: Steve Merchant <merchant at crl.com> (Steve Merchant)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 15:10:03 -0800
Subject: '94 ARRL CW Results: AG6D M/2
Message-ID: <199402212310.AA26548 at crl.crl.com>

                   ARRL INTERNATIONAL DX CONTEST 1994


      Call: AG6D                     Country:  United States (072)
      Mode: CW                       Category: Multi Two

      BAND     QSO    QSO PTS PTS/Q COUNTRIES


      160        4       12   3.0        2
       80      159      474   3.0       26
       40      643     1872   2.9       81
       20      596     1743   2.9       85
       15      407     1182   2.9       69
       10      153      456   3.0       33
     --------------------------------------

     Totals   1962     5739   2.9      296  =   1,698,744

Operator List: AG6D, N4TQO, K2MM, WM2C, W6RGG, KG6GF

Equipment Description: TS930S (2); Henry (2), Dentron amps
                       386DX-40, 386DX-33, 486slc-50 networked (CT v8.45)
                       160=66' vert.; 80=2el @ 120'; 40=4el @ 130', 2el
                       @ 65' (plus 80/40 dipoles @ 60'); KT34XA @ 70' and
                       56', A4S @ 35' (all on different towers).

Club Affiliation:  Northern California Contest Club (NCCC)

                              Continent Statistics
                        AG6D                        Multi Two     
                                                             |  93 CQWW (M/S)
                 160   80   40   20   15   10  ALL   percent |    percent
                                                             |
North America      4   19   44   43   46   27  183     9.2   |     15.7
South America      0    4   16   20   22   26   88     4.4   |      3.4
Europe             0    0   52  199   45    0  296    14.8   |     18.4
Asia               0  133  502  316  265   87 1303    65.2   |     57.2
Africa             0    1    8    5    8    0   22     1.1   |      1.5
Oceania            0    5   35   26   25   16  107     5.4   |      3.8

Comments:  In a word: ugly.  No Europe; no good JA runs on 80/20. (W6QHS: see
"second contest" numbers in continent breakdown.)  Luckily 10 opened a bit.  
Lots of rain static on 40 Saturday night.  One amplifier casualty.  Special
thanks to big contributors from 2-land: K2MM for his indomitable spirit and 
willingness to climb anything to fix antennas and prop pitches; and WM2C for 
his enthusiasm, skill, and borrowed network analyzer (we have new stubs).
It was great fun, see you in WPX CW!

73, Steve N4TQO
merchant at crl.com

>From draperbl <draperbl at smtplink.mdl.sandia.gov>  Mon Feb 21 23:10:36 1994
From: draperbl <draperbl at smtplink.mdl.sandia.gov> (draperbl)
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 17:10:36 MDT
Subject: no AGC for CW contests?
Message-ID: <9402211710.A09636 at smtplink.mdl.sandia.gov.>

Earlier today, Eric (K3NA) posted a message about the 20m
W3LPL operations for ARRL DX CW.  In it, he mentioned the distorted 
tinny sounding CW coming from his rig with the AGC turned off.
Until recently, I thought that this practice died out a 
long time ago . . . but during the last multi/multi at
AA6TT's I noticed that Peter, AH3C, was using a brand new
FT1000 with the AGC turned off and the RF gain turned down!  
It shocked me, but it's very possible (probable?) that
I'm missing something here.  I've tried this briefly a 
couple of times and couldn't see any advantages.  Maybe
it requires practice, or maybe special 'secret' techniques are
needed, or . . . ?  Other than for extreme circumstances like
very high noise levels, are a lot of contesters using the
technique to advantage?

Let's take a poll.  How many folks on the contest reflector
don't use AGC when contesting?  Why/why not?

SEND YOUR VOTE DIRECTLY TO ME, NOT THE REFLECTOR!
   SEND YOUR VOTE DIRECTLY TO ME, NOT THE REFLECTOR!
      SEND YOUR VOTE DIRECTLY TO ME, NOT THE REFLECTOR!

There, did I say it enough times?  I'll tabulate the results
and post them in a couple of days.  
(would this be more appropriate for the AGC reflector?).

             73,
              Bruce  AA5B

        draperbl at smtplink.mdl.sandia.gov  or  draperbl at mdlchtm.eece.unm.edu 




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