W5WMU's big signal

Ray Rocker rrrocker at rock.b11.ingr.com
Wed Jul 13 23:20:43 EDT 1994

Well this is probably moot now that the story has been told (Re: K5GA's
rundown of the antennas...holy aluminum, Batman!!!) but I was going to say
that W5WMU obviously, to me, has more going than high power because I am
*always* able to work him/them in the 10-meter contest on scatter. A lot
of the other close-by big guns in 4/5 land are pretty loud on scatter but
most of them can't copy my puny signal no matter how long I scream at them.
W5WMU and a few others...N4AR, more I can't recall...always can hear me.

On the other hand, those "300 watt" Italians who are always 4 or 5 S-units
above the rest and still can't copy me, I'm not so sure about...

For the record W5WMU was 50db over S9 on my meter on 20 CW last Saturday, 
and I don't ever recall a non-local pushing my needle so far to the right.
Even WRNO Worldwide on 7355 with 100KW only runs about that strength.

-- ray WQ5L/4 rrrocker at ingr.com || rocker at iquest.com

>From oo7 at astro.as.utexas.edu (Derek Wills)  Wed Jul 13 23:27:22 1994
From: oo7 at astro.as.utexas.edu (Derek Wills) (Derek Wills)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 22:27:22 GMT
Subject: things gaseous
Message-ID: <9407140327.AA00889 at astro.as.utexas.edu>

Every month on the back of the DX Mag there is an ad that says
"Creative Electronics Has Your Amplifier" (and unless we receive
a ransom of.... oh no, never mind).

Anyway, one of the amps illustrated is advertised as "3-30 MHz,
10 KW".   They have been running these ads for as long as I have
subscribed to this mag.   Now, it's called a Commercial amp, and
they illustrate some others that would be no use in CQWW (50 KW
at 450 Mz...) but presumably hams buy their products.  And of
course they may well have amps that run less than a KW, too.

I think we are all in awe of the mega stations with their superb
antenna systems, and I bet most of them run close to legal power.
Whatever the antenna system, I think most of us lose any respect
we had if we know for sure that 5-10 KW is fed into the things.
I don't know first-hand of anyone who does, so I will shut up.

Derek AA5BT, G3NMX
oo7 at astro.as.utexas.edu

>From John Ross <73321.2502 at compuserve.com>  Thu Jul 14 07:46:46 1994
From: John Ross <73321.2502 at compuserve.com> (John Ross)
Date: 14 Jul 94 02:46:46 EDT
Subject: WB2K IARU Score
Message-ID: <940714064646_73321.2502_FHM53-1 at CompuServe.COM>

                      IARU HF Championship    1994
      Call: WB2K (at K3ANS)          Country:  United States
      Category: Single Op - SSB only
      160       11       27     2.45      6      0
       80      113      283     2.50     16      7
       40       83      221     2.66     19      9
       20      945     4189     4.43     41     14
       15      222      758     3.41     22      8
       10       33       63     1.91      6      0
     Totals   1407     5541     3.94    110     38
                 Score: 820,068 points
Club Affiliation: Frankford Radio Club
    A thousand kudos to Bill, K3ANS and his wife Hope for letting me use his
station this weekend.
    Participation this year was apparently way up (or maybe it was just
Bill's antennas).  20 was great, 80 was pretty decent, and 40 SSB was a pain
in the ass as usual. Sure was hard to catch W1AW and the VE hq stations.
This is a great summer contest. If you didn't play, you missed some fun!
73, John - WB2K

>From Willy Umanets <uw9ar at chal.chel.su>  Thu Jul 14 20:58:05 1994
From: Willy Umanets <uw9ar at chal.chel.su> (Willy Umanets)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 15:58:05 -0400
Subject: 100KW input fm UA9BA
Message-ID: <AADZP9kqJ2 at chal.chel.su>

High power... I gess one thing is being missed here.
What is high power? How much is inuff to be in the
class of high power? Anything above the license limit?
Well, hr in Russia it is 200w dc input... How can a
Russin compete against 1kw US amateur fairly? And so
on, and so on...
I consider power factor in a real simple way. As long
as one is capable to run a station with "gas" ( doesn't
matter if its a 100kw one) without  interference
to others on band, to be read - loud but clean signal,
it is OK with me. It is 100kw guy's problem if he is
known as a "big alligator" not ours as long as he does not
QRM others.
As long as fairness of competition... Is it fair when a
3 over 3 on 40m guy is against a dipole guy? Is it fair
when P40 is against VE5, and so on...
Contesting is a mix of human and technical factors.
I strongly believe that human factor preveals the technical
one, so talking about 4 - 10dB difference in signal strength,
due to higher power,
while other factors such as antennas, locations etc produce
much bigger advantages/disadvantages is just another whining
session here on reflector.
Is it because a 6 dB increase in signal strength due to higher
power costs a lot more $$$ per dB, provided you already run a KW,
then going fm a dipole to
a 3 el., and once you have a 3 el. and yet you want extra 6 dB
you have an option, either put up a huge collinear stacked array,
or increase yor power which costwise is about the same and not
affordable to too many of us...
BTW I adore guys that have built high power amps (10 and more KW)
and were able to keep their signal clean, not bothering anybody,
and at the same time having not earned reputation of the "BIG
ALLIGATOR" ( I hate the latter).

AS long as W5WMU. For many years it is a "big gun", for many
years W5WMU is about the only zone 4 multiplier that hears and
is heard on 80m here. I want to congratulate the owner of W5WMU
on that! BTW W5WMU's 20m sig in IARU was loud, but not exceptionally

P.S. I had never run a station in contest with less than 1.5 kw output.

73, Willy, UA9BA
JV "Challenger Ltd"                 phone : 351-260-0190
Internet : uw9ar at chal.chel.su       fax   : 351-237-1756

>From K2ZJ <JVCARIOTI at c5vr.syr.ge.com>  Thu Jul 14 12:27:09 1994
From: K2ZJ <JVCARIOTI at c5vr.syr.ge.com> (K2ZJ)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 7:27:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Commonplace amplifiers
Message-ID: <940714072709.22407e64 at c5vr.syr.ge.com>

If anybody wants to draw their own conclusions about the use (or implied use)
of big amplifiers (not only in contesting, but everyday operation), just pick
up a copy of the Yellow Sheets sometime.

I am constantly amazed at how many really BIG amps are for sale each month by
completely unknown (to me) callsigns.  Of course most of the ads read something
like this:

Amplifier 1500+++ watts output,  etc.

I bet there are 10-15 amps a month in there that are advertised in that manner.

This of course is not meant to imply that everyone who buys (or owns) one of
these monsters runs illegal power.  But it is interesting how many are out

By the way, the description of the WMU QTH as being "swampy" reminded me of
another local station here close to me NM2L who lives in a swamp.  When I
was at 7Z1AB during 1990, Greg was always 7-10 dB louder than all of the other
local guys running the same or better antennas.  Swamps seem to be great
signal boosters.

Now if he could just kill all those damn mosquitos, I would visit him more


>From Morao Esteban <z801183a at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>  Thu Jul 14 14:05:29 1994
From: Morao Esteban <z801183a at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> (Morao Esteban)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 09:05:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Big Power
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9407140853.A13199-0100000 at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>

Ok, for the past couple of day I been reading the messages about this topic.

My question is What would you consider BIG POWER?

I don't see no problem that a station would run 10KW or 100w, a course 
if is legal, he can go for it, and if is not and he goes for it that is a 
matter of him and the agency of the goverment encharge of regulating Ham 

Now, maybe you have 10KW but how is the reception!, they maybe can hear 
you but you don't hear anything.

My point of view, in the majoroty of the messages express 
that "Is It Fair", well is a fair a 4 ellemnt quad station vs a single 

Just let be...

Steve W4/YV5DTA
z801183a at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us

>From barry at w2up.wells.com (Barry Kutner)  Thu Jul 14 03:07:17 1994
From: barry at w2up.wells.com (Barry Kutner) (Barry Kutner)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 02:07:17 GMT
Subject: GAS
Message-ID: <uaiFPc2w165w at w2up.wells.com>

Trey Garlough <GARLOUGH at TGV.COM> writes:

> > Well, John, if thats how everyone feels then I must be from another planet.
> > Because the folks I talk to think it *is* an issue that is worthy of
> > discussion, albeit there is no known cure for the problem. Even the
> > FCC couldn't stop a notorious W2 hi power op from abusing the
> > priveleges of his license. 
> Whatever.  Seldom are the high power are winners, so it isn't much of
> an issue.  Sometimes these guys make the top ten, but typically the other 
> guys in the top ten are cognizant of who the gassers are, and they apply a 
> mental filter to the results.  Once in a while a gasser wins and gets a 
> trophy for his effort, but the victory is hollow and the true winners know 
> who they are.
> --Trey, WN4KKN/6

So who are the gassers? Will the list appear in Heidi Fleiss' book? (we
don't hear much about her anymore. Must be cuz of OJ)

Barry N. Kutner, W2UP       Usenet/Internet: barry at w2up.wells.com
Newtown, PA                 Packet Radio: W2UP @ WB3JOE.#EPA.PA.USA.NA
                            Packet Cluster: W2UP >K2TW (FRC)

>From Paul D. Walker <pwalker at mbi.moody.edu>  Thu Jul 14 14:33:42 1994
From: Paul D. Walker <pwalker at mbi.moody.edu> (Paul D. Walker <pwalker at mbi.moody.edu>)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 8:33:42 CDT
Subject: Thanks RE: IARU - first contest ever ...

Thanks to all who personally e-mailed me about my first contest experience
this past weekend.  All your comments are greatly appreciated AND
encouraging.  Certainly the one thing I have learned is that contesting is
year round -- some of the smaller "regional" contest actually seem like
they would be quite challenging (Columbian Independence Day Contest ?!?!?).

My only regret is waiting until last January to get my ticket.  What was I
thinking back at Rose-Hulman when I turned down all those offers to get
started in amateur radio. ;^)

Well, guys, thanks again!  I have never before met a group of people who
you have no clue who they are, yet they treat you as if you've been friends
for years.  Amateur radio is great fun!  [Is that proper grammatical
construction?  I think my mom would shoot me if she saw that. 8-D ]

C-Ya Down the Log!

de N9WHG

Paul D. Walker II			e-mail: pwalker at mbi.moody.edu
Database/System Administrator		phone:	(312)329-4392
Moody Bible Institute			fax:	(312)329-4496
820 North LaSalle Drive
Chicago, IL  60610

>From bgarratt at hookup.net (Barry Garratt)  Thu Jul 14 15:07:53 1994
From: bgarratt at hookup.net (Barry Garratt) (Barry Garratt)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 10:07:53 -0400
Subject: Gas/nitro etc
Message-ID: <199407141408.KAA11646 at noc.tor.hookup.net>

Not withstanding the fact that these amplifiers are available and out there
somewhere no one seems to have touched on what would be/is required to
operate one of these things.
Its a given that you can't have one in a residential area feeding your tribander
so that eliminates the majority.
So now we're talking about the multi tower multi antenna country folk.
Now the fun part starts. What do I use for coax..7/8 Heliax won't stand the 
What do I use for coax relays? What do I use for the rotation loops?
I know some of you can answer these questions and you also know that the
solutions are not cheap. In fact they very expensive.
To run some of the implied powers is certainly not a plug and play situation.
I only have 3 towers and a couple of stacks but I'd hate to think of the cost
and logistics to convert to a nitro station.
As John N0UN sayes you buy more with aluminum at the "right" height than
you do with a bigger amplifier.
My example goes back afew years and I was operating long path from UA3.
Most of the locals back home were on 20 (tribanders at 70ft and 1kw) and
running about S5 to S7. When John VE3EJ came on (5el mono at 150ft ) he
was 15 to 20db over and he was only running 100 watts (the Alpha hadn't
warmed up yet). But when the band went short path John was just another
VE calling. In fact there were other locals who had him beat. The 150ft antenna
was killing him and his bottom 5el was out of service.
A classic example to me of the right and wrong height for a given path.
I could give many more examples but you get the idea.
Long boomed yagis at the right height get my vote each and every time.

Barry VE3CDX
  Barry D. Garratt                         bgarratt at hookup.net
  905 573-0788

>From Peter G. Smith" <n4zr at netcom.com  Thu Jul 14 15:18:31 1994
From: Peter G. Smith" <n4zr at netcom.com (Peter G. Smith)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 07:18:31 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9407140719.A28488-0100000 at netcom>

Good lord!  And I thought W3LPL was impressive. But let me ask the 
obvious question that you don't address directly.  with all this effort 
to get the last Db out, can you state categorically that only legal power 
is run?  After all, at some point, it's probably easier to run 8x legal 
than it is to find the 9db any other way.										

73, Pete                                       
N4ZR at netcom.com

>From Morao Esteban <z801183a at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>  Thu Jul 14 15:35:04 1994
From: Morao Esteban <z801183a at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us> (Morao Esteban)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 10:35:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Indoor antennas?
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9407141029.A25820-0100000 at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>

Anybody outhere have any type of recomendation for an indoor HF antena?

Steve W4/YV5DTA
z801183a at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us

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