Another SS-type contest???

N0bsh at N0bsh at
Sun Jul 17 15:49:23 EDT 1994

K3SA wrote:
>> 12)  If you had the power to change one and only one aspect of
>>      contesting, what would you recommend?
>>  Not change Sweepstakes, but start a new domestic SS contest
> in which you can work each station on each band.  This
> would (hopefully) reduce the Sunday pm slow times.
Gee, the non-contest types already hate us.  I'm not sure where
we would fit another such contest on the schedule.

Oh yeah... eh,eh... I forgot... we already have a domestic contest
where you can work the same guy on six bands (and accumulate mults
to boot!!)  It's the North American QSO Party and the summer edition
is just around the corner.  Heck, even DX can participate in this one
if they so choose.  See you all the first weekend in August from...
uh, somewhere...

Mike N0BSH
n0bsh at

(Since PINS and mugs the only REALLY slow time I've experienced was 
the last 7 hours last year in SS Phone.  The rig blew up - running QRP -
and I had no backup)  .  .

>From jholly at (Jim Hollenback)  Sun Jul 17 20:21:18 1994
From: jholly at (Jim Hollenback) (Jim Hollenback)
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 1994 12:21:18 -0700
Subject: who is this?
Message-ID: <9407171221.ZM24069 at>

We interrupt the normal program to bring you this trival question ...

I recently returned from the Seattle area and while bobing around on
Puget Sound I noticed a  fair sized collection of steel and Aluminum 
at the point of Foulweather Bluff. Who is this? Any stats on the

We now return you to the regularly scheduled programming on power ..

73, Jim, WA6SDM
jholly at

>From oo7 at (Derek Wills)  Sun Jul 17 20:33:01 1994
From: oo7 at (Derek Wills) (Derek Wills)
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 94 14:33:01 CDT
Subject: Another SS-type contest???
Message-ID: <9407171933.AA25594 at>

	>>>  Not change Sweepstakes, but start a new domestic SS contest
	>> in which you can work each station on each band.  This
	>> would (hopefully) reduce the Sunday pm slow times.
	>Gee, the non-contest types already hate us.  I'm not sure where
	>we would fit another such contest on the schedule. [N0BSH]

Perhaps this goes along with the question about setting aside
certain frequency ranges for contests, so that the non-contest
types are not completely blown off the band.

I would actually favor restricting our contest bands, if at the same
time we restricted ragchewing (defined as anything other than contesting)
to the remaining part of each band.  Somehow I don't see this happening,
but to me one of the saddest things is to hear juicy DX underneath the
ragchewing-over-coffee-at-the-same-time-every-day types.  Of course,
this happens outside contests too.

	The rig blew up - running QRP - and I had no backup  .  .

I think we have to redefine what QRP means on this group, it
may be the current term for "no more than a few KW".

Derek AA5BT, G3NMX
oo7 at

>From Robert Wood <w5robert at blkbox.COM>  Sun Jul 17 20:31:00 1994
From: Robert Wood <w5robert at blkbox.COM> (Robert Wood)
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 1994 14:31:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: 1994 CQ Contest Survey
Message-ID: <9407171431.aa20031 at blkbox.COM>

> 2)  Who do you recommend should be the next inductee into the
>     CQ Contest Hall of Fame?

W5WMU   -  This boy has got some serious AL up in the air.

73   Robert WB5CRG

>From H. Ward Silver" <hwardsil at  Sun Jul 17 23:56:17 1994
From: H. Ward Silver" <hwardsil at (H. Ward Silver)
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 1994 15:56:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: who is this?
Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.9407171512.A2814-a100000 at>

On Sun, 17 Jul 1994, Jim Hollenback wrote:
> I recently returned from the Seattle area and while bobing around on
> Puget Sound I noticed a  fair sized collection of steel and Aluminum 
> at the point of Foulweather Bluff. Who is this? Any stats on the
> antenna? 
This is W6RR's QTH.  Used to be the home of W7RM in the seventies until a
massive windstorm that also took out the Hood Canal floating bridge.  RR
has a 3-el 80m yagi up, plus lots of other goodies.  But I never hear him
on the air, maybe he's one of the "owners" of 3795 ;-)  Not too far away
is the also impressive aluminum farm of W7XR on the other side of the
Sound.  Salt water does offer its advantages!!

73, Ward N0AX

>From tim.ellam at (Tim Ellam)  Mon Jul 18 00:35:00 1994
From: tim.ellam at (Tim Ellam) (Tim Ellam)
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 94 18:35:00 -0500
Subject: Power, or lack thereof
Message-ID: <55048.1000.uupcb at>

In the SS phone 2 years ago a fellow in W4 refused to believe I was
running QRP(real QRP!) and refused to log my exchange..."hell" he said "
your 30 over 9 no way you are running QRP". After a heated debate(I
needed the mult) I moved on called CQ and had a mini pile up for 10min.
Allthe stations who called me commented on the big signal, but it did
not last and I was back to the old S&P grind
Propagation can be a big equalizer no matter what power you run!

NB: most RSGB contests wont allow you to enter in that catagory if you
are using a "regular" rig tuned to 5W, you have to use a "QRP" radio. I
guess they are concerned some will be tempted to turn up the gain when
the going gets tough...but they dont have the same stipulation that
entrants in the "high power" catagorymust only use a amp capable of
400W...why not???


| Logical Solutions Computer Systems Inc.       Calgary, Alberta, Canada |
| Internet:                   (403)-299-9900 24 Lines  |

>From oo7 at (Derek Wills)  Sun Jul 17 22:53:21 1994
From: oo7 at (Derek Wills) (Derek Wills)
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 94 21:53:21 GMT
Subject: Power, or lack thereof
Message-ID: <9407180253.AA01167 at>

Remember how loud HC8A was in the last CQWW-ssb?   His amp failed
at the start of the contest and he started an hour or so late with
5 watts instead.   Great path to HC8, he was at least S9 on 10m.
I called him with 5 watts for fun and told him that, he said that
I was not that much over S9 there...

Just imagine what he would have sounded like with a kilowatt.

Those of you who believe in S-units should ponder the following.
I did a test with a VK, who said that I was S9 + 60dB (hmm), so
I turned off the SB-220 and he said I dropped to S5.   If one
S-point is 6 dB, that's a difference of 84 dB or about a factor
of 250 million.   So if I was running 100 W without the amp, I
must have been running 25 billion watts with it on - or conversely,
if I was running 1 KW with it on, the transceiver alone was putting 
out 4-millionths of a watt.

Does anyone look at the S-meter in giving signal reports?  Are we
really using 6 dB per S unit when we say that one person is S5 and
another is S9?   People have told me "well, a factor of 4 in power
is only one S-unit, so it doesn't make that much difference".  
A factor of 4 is a factor of 4...

I give S9 to anyone who is obviously loud, S5 when I can hardly
hear the person, and S7 to a respectable but not overpowering
signal - do people really believe in finer distinctions?

OK, this is the contest reflector and we all know that everyone
is S9 all the time...

Derek AA5BT, G3NMX
oo7 at

>From Steve Fraasch <sfraasch at ATK.COM>  Mon Jul 18 16:46:00 1994
From: Steve Fraasch <sfraasch at ATK.COM> (Steve Fraasch)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 08:46:00 PDT
Subject: Elevated GPs
Message-ID: <2E2AA3E4 at msm2.ATK.COM>


About a year ago, I conducted an analytical experiment on NEC (not MININEC) 
to verify Al Christman's claim that a ground mounted vertical w/120 radials 
was as efffective as an elevated vertical, .05 to .1 lambda off the ground 
with only 4 radials.  I found out something different.

I ran 4, 8, 12 and 16 radial cases, over average earth, (conductivity 10 
mMhos/m, er = 15), and the 16 radial case was far superior, by almost 2 dB. 
 The peak gain occurred at a lower angle as well, but I don't remember where 
(the data's at home - I'm at work).  The drive impedance seemed to converge 
to within 1 ohms Re|Z| from 12 to 16 radials.  Why did I stop at 16? Because 
the compiled version could not handle additional wires at a single node. 
 Certainly, it would be interesting to determine the knee in both the gain, 
and drive impedance curves.  I've not yet re-compiled the NEC source code on 
workstation, but when I do someday, I'll try this and report the results.

Also, I found that neither the half-wave, nor quarter wave radial length was 
the "hot tip."  Best performance was obtained with a 3/8 wave, or 100' 
radial for 75 meters (3.790 Mhz).

My point is that AT LEAST 16, not 4 radials, is required for high efficiency 
using an elevated vertical over average earth conditions.  However, I cannot 
speak for all ground conditions.  Noting the change from 8, to 12, to 16, it 
seems drive impedance and gain were well converged.

As far as a 50' elevated vert on 160m: sure, it will work, but with low 
bandwidth and lower efficiency unless you've got those 16 or more radials. 
 You will want to add as much top loading as possible, to "pull" the current 
as high as possible, resulting in a higher Re|Z| (radiation resistance), 
resulting in higher efficiency.  Again NEC, (not MININEC) is well suited for 
determining drive impedance and gain.  If you're using the NOSC NEC version, 
you must use the Norton-Sommerfeld extension to solve for the lossy ground 
plane effect.  MININEC will provide totally bogus numbers if you're 
attempting to analyze elevated vertical systems over lossy ground (i.e. 
average earth conditions).

Steve, K0SF

sfraasch at

>From jholly at (Jim Hollenback)  Mon Jul 18 15:32:36 1994
From: jholly at (Jim Hollenback) (Jim Hollenback)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 07:32:36 -0700
Subject: who this is
Message-ID: <9407180732.ZM26272 at>

Thanks all.  The votes are for W6RR. The three element yagi on 80 sure
caught my eye!

73, Jim, WA6SDM
jholly at

>From Ronald D. Rossi" <rrossi at VNET.IBM.COM  Mon Jul 18 13:58:20 1994
From: Ronald D. Rossi" <rrossi at VNET.IBM.COM (Ronald D. Rossi)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 08:58:20 EDT
Subject: SOUPED

I would be willing to bet that SOUPED derives from some form of super
and that SUPED just spelled funny.  Like a souped up car or whatever.
It's likely that the word came from the pronunciation and was
assumed to be souped then becoming soup.  The dictionary has souped-up
and nothing for suped.  Doesn't language evolve nicely?

Ron Rossi

/ IBM Microelectronics             Internet:   rrossi at   /
/ H/P ASIC SRAM Design                 VNET:   RROSSI at BTVLABVM    /
/ Dept N93  Bldg 861-2                Voice:   802/769-7477          /
/ 1000 River Road                        RF:   N1PBT/AE              /
/ Essex Junction, VT  05452-4299                                     /
/                                                                    /
/ "I work for IBM, I don't represent its views!"                     /
/                                                                    /

>From Steve Harrison <sharriso at>  Mon Jul 18 16:43:14 1994
From: Steve Harrison <sharriso at> (Steve Harrison)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 11:43:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Where to measure the power?
Message-ID: <Pine.3.87.9407181114.A18856-0100000 at eagle>

On Fri, 15 Jul 1994, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
> I have observed that there are vast cultural differences regarding "following
> the rules" or "doing the right thing".  For a graphic example, visit the
> hovercraft port at Folkestone.  The crowd consists of generally English and
> French.  The English are very adept at standing in lines (queues).  The French
> attitude seems to be, "You English can stand in line if you wish, that is your
> choice.  I'll get to the front as fast as I can."  I don't believe that the
> French (or Italians, or Russians or whatever) really think that they're doing
> anything at all wrong. The notion of obeying a "rule" when you have little
> chance of being caught is not a universally accepted concept.
OH! Is THAT why there are so many idiotic drivers on the east 
coast of the good ole U.S. of A....they are all really French or 
Italians or Russians in disguise...Steve, KO0U/4

>From Lunt, Billy" <blunt at  Mon Jul 18 17:02:00 1994
From: Lunt, Billy" <blunt at (Lunt, Billy)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 12:02:00 EDT
Subject: New VHF Rover Rules
Message-ID: <2E2AA7DB at>

The American Radio Relay League

225 Main Street, Newington CT USA  06111
Telephone: 203-666-1541
Telefax: 203-665-7531
MCI Mail ID: 450-7394
Internet: contest at


July 18, 1994                 For Further Information Contact:
                                    Billy Lunt, KR1R


Rover Rules Adopted

Today, the ARRL Awards Committee voted unanimously to accept a
recommendation to modify rover category rules for the January VHF
Sweepstakes, June VHF QSO Party and September VHF QSO Party.  The new rules, 

proposed by W3EP, are as follows:

Rule 1 (C) Rover:  A rover consists of one or two operators of a single
station that moves among two or more grid locators during the contest.  A
rover vehicle may transport only one station using a single call sign; thus
a rover may not operate with multiple call signs under the family rule 7
(C).  Rover vehicles must transport all the equipment, power supplies, and
antennas used at each operating site.  This rule is not intended to prevent
an operator from using the same call sign to submit separate logs for
single-operator (fixed station) and rover-class entries.  Rovers add  rover 

on phone and /R on CW after their call signs.

Rule 4 (D) Rovers only: The total rover score is the sum of the scores made
from each grid locator.  Submit separate logs for each grid where operating
sites were established and score them individually, as explained in
paragraphs (A)-(C) above.  Then add the scores from each grid on the summary 

sheet for the total rover score.  Rovers are listed in the published contest 

results under the division from which the highest aggregate score was made.
 [For the January VHF Sweepstakes only:]  Rovers entering club competition
must indicate the grid locators where operating sites were within 175 miles
of the club s center.  Only scores made from those grid locations count for
club competition.

 -  30  -

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