Multiple-Choice Packet-in-Contests Quiz

Douglas L. Klein WD8AUB at IX.NETCOM.COM
Thu Sep 26 23:07:09 EDT 1996

Norton, Richard wrote:
> Hypothetical Situation:
> Assume that you are connected with the judging of a large, popular,
> international DX contest. Assume that in judging one of the modes of the
> contest, some of the judges collectively spent over 100 man-hours looking at
> a few single-operator logs to see if there was evidence of use of
> packet-aided spotting.
> Assume that the judges were experienced and competent at both contest
> operating and log judging.
> Assume that all those judges involved came to the same conclusion, which was
> that a few single-operator entrants did use packet.
> Assume that the judges also determined that there was no way they could
> definitely prove that packet was used. Even things like two-character-errors
> in copying a long callsign, that had just also been made by several other
> multi-op members or assisted members of the operator's club, might just be
> circumstantial.
> Make no assumptions about what this would do, within the log-checking
> community, to the reputations of those suspected of packet-use, even if they
> happen to be innocent.
> Assume that the feeling among the judges is that packet presents a means by
> which some entrants easily CAN and HAVE cheated.
> The question:
> For this theoretical case, what should be done in the future, if anything?
> Possible choices:
> 1) Do nothing. Out-foxing the committee and other contestants is part of the
> contest. If these guys can do it, and the committee can't prove anything,
> these guys deserve to win.
> 2) Do nothing. There is no need for a committee to judge logs. The entrants
> should be trusted. Some bad apples will always be listed, but many of the
> high scores will actually be real.
> 3) Do nothing. Let packet-cheaters be listed in the results the same way
> that high-power cheaters are today. Their reputations can be handled in the
> hallways of Dayton and Visalia.
> 4)  Change the rules to allow packet spotting for single-operator
> categories. Operator skills should be only important in the Sprint.
> International DX contests should be primarily a measure of location and
> station.
> 5) Permit the committee to make a decision based on a vote of the judges to
> reclassify the log. Find more volunteers to perform these studies in every
> contest.
> 6) Beef up the judging committee. Have referees at the stations during the
> contest like was done at the WRTC.  Find volunteers in all parts of the
> country who know something about contests who want to spend their weekends
> acting as referees.
> 7) Work strongly to minimize this problem by discouraging use of packet in
> DX contests by anyone.
> 8) Work even more strongly to minimize this problem by making use of packet
> in contests, by anyone, against the rules.
> Dick  Norton N6AA/VK5

I vote for number 2.  We don't get paid in this hobby.  The only thing
that is hurt is our egos when we don't win.  And big deal.  We all know
that some contest stations cheat and run illegal power.  In the back
rooms in Dayton we all know who they are.  And those of us doing it
legally are content with coming behind the cheaters.  

My vote:  Let them win.  I'm in it for the fun.

73 and CU in the next one (whether I win or not!!!!)


PS If we put as much effort into making our stations as competitive as
possible and towards preserving contesting in general (with proper
promotion of the youngsters and leadership by example) --- rather than
into developing Super Duper CIA Grade Artificial Intelligence Software
aimed at detecting the smallest of grievances so that ALL logs are on a
perfectly level playing table --- then our Contest Hobby will be

(Sorry, that was an unusually long Run-On sentence)

>From km9p at (Bill Fisher, KM9P)  Fri Sep 27 03:25:39 1996
From: km9p at (Bill Fisher, KM9P) (Bill Fisher, KM9P)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:25:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Ferrite Summary Available
Message-ID: <199609270225.WAA05260 at>

I put it on the web...


| Contesting Online... The ultimate           |
| source of ham radio contest information     |       
|                   |

>From rlboyd at (Rich L. Boyd)  Fri Sep 27 04:06:15 1996
From: rlboyd at (Rich L. Boyd) (Rich L. Boyd)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:06:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 2 radio ops- headphone questions
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.960926230538.2396E-100000 at>

On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, Steven Nace wrote:

> My present 2 radio set-up stinks. This includes the way I listen to 2
> radios at once. I am soliciting methods or preferences from those of you
> that have success with 2-at-once.
> One question is: If 1 rig is audible in each ear, do you have a serious
> handicap when one radio is turned down all the way? Does this present an
> 'inbalance' in your head? Is there a way to counteract this inbalance?
> Any advice and experiences shall be appreciated.
> Thanks in advance
> KN5H not KN5S
>  ____________________________________________________________________
> | Steven K. Nace     KN5H           Phone: 505-525-6205              |
> | AlliedSignal Technical Svcs       E-Mail: Snace at |
> | Spacecraft Engineering Group      Alt E-mail:steven at     |
> | NASA White Sands Complex          Fax:     505-525-6229            |
> | Las Cruces, NM 88004              Alt Fax: 505-527-7223            |
> +____________________________________________________________________+ 
If you turn one radio all the way down, all you have to do is flip the 
switch on your switch box and you get the other radio in both ears 
again and your concern is addressed.  73 - Rich Boyd, KE3Q

>From wrt at (Bill Turner)  Fri Sep 27 04:05:43 1996
From: wrt at (Bill Turner) (Bill Turner)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 03:05:43 GMT
Subject: FCC
References: <Pine.SUN.3.95.960924154455.25796A-100000 at>
Message-ID: <324b4417.2088267 at>

On Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:46:57 -0700 (PDT), Cleve D Leclair <dleclair at>
>the correct address is
>                                         not /~ki4hn/vanitytd.htm
>Your welcome....
>Cleve - N7IXG - For awhile longer
Actually, they are both correct.  The /vanity.htm is one page higher.  Either
one gets you there.

You're welcome too...

73, Bill W7LZP
wrt at

>From Andrew at (Andrew Williamson)  Thu Sep 26 14:21:27 1996
From: Andrew at (Andrew Williamson) (Andrew Williamson)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 14:21:27 +0100
Subject: Another way to make top ten
Message-ID: <mURNKNAXNoSyEwFO at>

In message <n1368456386.86646 at>, Tim Coad
<Tim_Coad at> writes

>1. Do we need mandatory drug testing of contest ops?

No way maaan, don't spoil my fun !!! (kids, I'm joking, don't do drugs).

>2. Are those East Coast big guns really running 3rd and 4th tier euros' or are
>they just reading calls from the callbook?

Probably running them as they're normally 30+ dB over S9 in EU and 10KHz
wide, but that's another story altogether HI !!.  Hey, how do I make an
FT1000MP do that ??

>3. Does running QRO in contests really make you more likely to have female

Hey, you can contest at the same time....... I'm impressed.

>4.a How many of you out there also have had hallucinations after 40 hours of
>no sleep? 

Me, but make a cup of coffee at 6 times strength and you soon snap out
of it.  

>4.b and what were they?

Can't remember.  I was having an out-of-body experience at the time.

>5. What do you think about a new contest that is held ONLY on 14.230?

Sounds like a great idea.  Do those SSTV guys really think they are
going to get a picture across cleanly in the middle of CQWW SSB.... I
think NOT.  They only do it to create deliberate QRM (illegally ????).

>6. Was the Russian woodpecker really a YCCC device to keep west coast hams
>from running JA's on 40?

Hey, where were those great JA runs during WRTC ?  

Andrew Williamson, GI0NWG/AC6WI (and not changing under any Gate.  Who cares
E-mail : andrew at

>From wrt at (Bill Turner)  Fri Sep 27 04:12:28 1996
From: wrt at (Bill Turner) (Bill Turner)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 03:12:28 GMT
Subject: CONTEST related post!
References: <199609241439.KAA04021 at>
Message-ID: <324b45cc.2524591 at>

Just remember Bruce, all this advice flowing in to you is from guys who intend
to beat your pants off...   :-)

73, Bill W7LZP
wrt at

>From harpole at (Charles H. Harpole)  Fri Sep 27 04:26:21 1996
From: harpole at (Charles H. Harpole) (Charles H. Harpole)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:26:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Another way to make top ten
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.93.960926232409.3785D-100000 at pegasus>

Yes, I have had visions during contests.  The best one was that I was
surrounded behind my chair by about a dozen of my Am. Indian ancestors.
One of them, a child, slipped out of the group and sat in my lap.
Worked a 100/hr rate that hour.  de K4VUD

>From k1jks at (William G Bithell)  Fri Sep 27 06:48:54 1996
From: k1jks at (William G Bithell) (William G Bithell)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:48:54 EDT
Subject: Multiple-Choice Packet-in-Contests Quiz
References: <324C2385 at>
Message-ID: <19960927.045440.5271.4.K1JKS at>

Nice letter Dick,

Packet isn't all it seems...Unless you can bust huge piles with one call
it can lead to a serious reduction in your rate as you QSY from one
pile to the next.  The S/O guys seem to have better scores than the 
assisted , with some big gun stations getting croaked because of packet.

Why not simply allow packet? There's no way to prevent someone from
monitoring unconnected, so Let everyone use it.   It doesn't replace
Put me down for  #4

Bill, K1JKS

>From sm3bdz at (Lars Harlin)  Fri Sep 27 07:23:43 1996
From: sm3bdz at (Lars Harlin) (Lars Harlin)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:23:43 +0200
Subject: TS-870
Message-ID: < at>


Have had the opportunity to test the Kenwood TS870 for a few days.
Likes the receiver. Quiet and smooth, not as hysterical as the
ICOM crap....

However, I find one thing very annoying. As I am a CW op primarily, I
prefer QSK at all times. The controlrelay in the 870 is very clanky and
I have not find a way to disable is like I can do with my 850. Is that a
SBTW-(shit behind the wheel) problem or is there a need for modification?

Appreciate any ideas.

73 de Lars /SM3BDZ 

>From TREY at TGV.COM (Trey Garlough)  Fri Sep 27 07:52:01 1996
From: TREY at TGV.COM (Trey Garlough) (Trey Garlough)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:52:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Frequently Asked Questions
Message-ID: <843807121.161390.TREY at TGV.COM>


                      Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
                             CQ-Contest at TGV.COM

                by Trey Garlough, WN4KKN & Jim Reisert, AD1C

                                July 1, 1996


Contained in this FAQ:

  1. General Information about the FAQ and CQ-Contest at TGV.COM
        o About this FAQ
        o About CQ-Contest at TGV.COM
        o Editorial Guidelines
        o Appropriate Topics for Discussion
        o Inappropriate Topics for Discussion
  2. Subscribing and Unsubscribing
        o General Information about Subscribing and Unsubscribing
        o Subscribing to the list
        o Unsubscribing from the list
        o Getting the list in Digest form
        o Temporarily stopping and restarting mail
  3. Operating Practices
  4. Mailing List Archives
  5. E-mail addresses of Contesters
        o General Information about E-mail Addresses
        o WB5VZL List
        o CQ-Contest REVIEW
        o QRZ! Ham Radio CDROM
        o World Wide Web Directory Services
        o The old-fashioned way!
  6. Related Mailing Lists
        o Contest Results Group -- 3830 at
        o Kids contest group -- kids at
        o CT users group -- ct-user at
        o NA users group -- na-user at
        o SuperDuper users group -- sd-user at
        o TRLOG users group -- trlog at
        o Internet DX Reflector - dx at
  7. Internet Resources for Contesters
        o Contest Log Submissions
        o World Wide Web
  8. Finding out more about the Internet


1) General Information about the FAQ, CQ-Contest

1.01) About this FAQ

This FAQ will be posted every so often to the CQ-Contest mailing list.

If there's something you'd like added to this FAQ, please send mail to
WN4KKN (trey at cisco.COM), and he will update it.

1.02) About CQ-Contest at TGV.COM

CQ-Contest at TGV.COM is an electronic mail reflector dedicated to hams
interested in all types of amateur radio contesting. This is a good place
for contest-related announcements, discussions and rumors. This forum is
more like the NCJ than QST; INFO-HAMS at UCSD.EDU and
are good places to look for a more rounded discussion of the hobby.

Although there is overlap between contesters and DXers, CQ-Contest is not a
DX-oriented group. DX at is an electronic mailing list
(reflector) dedicated to the discussion of DXing. For details on how to
subscribe to this and other mailing lists, consult the section entitled
Related Mailing Lists.

CQ-Contest is NOT the place to announce your score after a contest.
3830 at is an electronic mailing list (reflector) for reporting
scores. See the Related Mailing Lists section below for details on how to
subscribe. Jimmy Floyd, WA4ZXA also collects scores and will occasionally
post a summary to CQ-Contest.

Each message you send to CQ-Contest at TGV.COM will be sent out to all the
other subscribers, kind of like a 2-meter repeater that has a coverage
radius of 12,000 miles or so. Think of sending mail to the list as the
equivalent of an ANNOUNCE/FULL message on PacketCluster. Use regular E-mail
to send a message to a specific individual.

1.03) Editorial Guidelines

The rules are very simple. Postings to CQ-CONTEST at TGV.COM should be
non-commerical and related to radio contesting. Anything outside of those
boundries should not be seen here unless specifically approved by WN4KKN
(trey at If Trey thinks the update has merit, he will likely
approve it.

1.04) Appropriate topics for discussion

   * Contest Announcements: Must be true contests, not "operating events"
     or "special events".
   * Contester's shack (inside) hardware/software: Must be relevant to
     CONTESTING, not just a discussion of bells and whistles that have
     little or no application to contesting.
   * Contester's outside shack (antennas/towers/coax/relays): Again, must
     be RELEVANT to contesting.
   * Contester's strategy: Before, during, after. How you planned/executed
     your activities.
   * Contester's skill: What you do that makes you good (or bad).
   * Contester's stories: Must be directly about contesting.
   * Contest ethics
   * Contest rules
   * Contest operators: who was where, who is good, who is an SK, etc.

1.05) Inappropriate topics for discussion

CQ-Contest at TGV.COM is mailing list dedidcated to contesters talking about
contesting. Termendous lattitude is given to INTERESTING topics ranging far
afield, but there are some types of messages that are strictly
inappropriate. For instance:

   * Meta-discussion about the CQ-Contest mailing list. These should be
     conducted in private with WN4KKN (trey at
   * The summary sheet from your latest contest effort. That should go to
     3830 at
   * What is the QSL route for xxx?
   * What is the E-mail address for xxx?
   * Is the xxx mailing list up/down?
   * Is the xxx DXpedition on the air yet?
   * Product annoucements.
   * Solicitations for nominations for "Young Ham of the Year".
   * Advertising (unless approved in advance by WN4KKN trey at


2) Subscribing and unsubscribing

2.01) General information about subscribing and unsubscribing

Subscription management is handled automatically by a program that answers
mail sent to CQ-Contest-REQUEST at TGV.COM. This address also answers
administrative requests, like stopping mail, or showing a list of
subscribers. Subject lines are ignored.

PLEASE do NOT send these requests to the list mailing address!

2.02) Subscribing to the list

To join the group, send a message to CQ-Contest-REQUEST at TGV.COM and write
the word SUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.

2.03) Unsubscribing from the list

To leave the group, send a message to CQ-Contest-REQUEST at TGV.COM and write
the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.

2.04) Getting the list in Digest form

Tack (je1cka at has graciously offered to redistribute CQ-Contest
messages in digest form. This means that all messages posted to CQ-Contest
on a given day will be bundled together and resent as a single message to
the subscribers of Tack's list. This is useful for people with Internet
providers that place a limit on the number of messages you can have in your
mailbox at once. This is the case for many of the JA subscribers.

To subscribe to JE1CKA's CQ-Contest-Digest list, send a message to
Contest-Request at DUMPTY.NAL.GO.JP that says:

        SUBSCRIBE CQ-Contest-digest your_callsign

If you are subscribed to CQ-Contest, remember to send the a message to
CQ-Contest-REQUEST at TGV.COM that says:

        SET NOMAIL

Since you will be getting the messages in digest form, you won't need to
get them directly from CQ-Contest at TGV.COM, but you will need to remain
subscribed if you still want to post messages.

2.05) Temporarily stopping and restarting mail

To stop mail (for example if you're going on vacation), send a message to
CQ-Contest-REQUEST at TGV.COM that says:

        SET NOMAIL

To start mail again, send a message to CQ-Contest-REQUEST at TGV.COM that

        SET MAIL


3) Operating Practices

Electronic mail is different from packet radio, in that many subscribers
receive their E-mail through commercial services such as CompuServe and
MCImail. In essence, many people are paying for each byte of every message
sent to CQ-Contest. In order to minimize spurious messages, please follow
the operating hints detailed below:

   * Put your name, callsign and E-mail address on every message you send.
     We don't all know everyone by just a callsign, nickname or Internet
     address. Furthermore, not everyone's E-mail software lets you see all
     the headers of the message, so it's sometimes difficult to reply to an
     individual posting without knowing the sender's address.
   * Use a subject line that indicates the true subject of your message.
   * Wait a while before answering someone's question. Six other people
     have probably answered it already. Most answers should go directly to
     the person who posed the question, rather than to the list.
   * Unlike PacketCluster, many people pay $$$ when they receive messages.
     Some people pay per message, some per byte. Therefore, please take
     this into consideration when writing a response. Would you pay $0.50
     to read the message that you just wrote?
   * Eschew flamage. If someone sends a flame to the list and you can't
     bite your tongue, send your flaming reply directly back to the flaming
     individual, not back to the list. No one wants to pay $1.00 to read
     these messages (the original flame + your reply). Treat flamers the
     way you would 2-meter repeater jammers - ignore them.
   * Make sure there is something of value in each message you send to the
     list. Avoid messages that are a complete reprint of someone else's
     message, with nothing but "I agree" or "Me too" added to the bottom --
     not much value there.
   * Some people pay by the byte, so when following up to someone else's
     message, be sure to include only the essential pieces or thread of the
     note. Don't include those 20 extra header lines that your mail gateway
     tacked onto the original message.
   * If you are going to make a personal reply, make sure to remove
     CQ-Contest from the header of your outgoing mail message. Otherwise,
     everyone else on the list is going to see your personal message.


4) Mailing List Archives

You can fetch messages from the CQ-Contest archive by sending a message to
FileServ at TGV.COM that says:

        SENDME CQ-Contest-ARCHIVE.yyyy-mm

where yyyy-mm is the year and month of the archive desired. For additional
information, you can send a message to FileServ at TGV.COM that says HELP.


5) E-mail addresses of Contesters

5.01) General information about E-mail addresses

There are number of ways to find the E-mail address for a particular
contester. Please do NOT send a message to CQ-Contest that says "Does
anyone have the E-mail address for ______?"

5.02) WB5VZL List

George Fremin, WB5VZL (geoiii at, maintains a fairly current list of
contester E-mail addresses. Send him a note to him asking for his list. Or
you can find the list on the WWW at

5.03) CQ-Contest REVIEW

You can get a list of CQ-Contest subscribers by sending a message to
CQ-Contest-REQUEST at TGV.COM that says REVIEW.

5.04) QRZ! Ham Radio CDROM

The QRZ! Callsign Database has the E-mail addresses for over 30,000 hams!
You can access it on the WWW at

5.05) World Wide Web Directory Services

There are several services on the WWW for looking up E-mail address for a
given name. Here are a few of them:


Thanks to Steve Zettel KJ7CH for the information!

5.06) The old-fashioned way!

If you've exhausted every other resource, try calling the person you seek
on the telephone and asking for their E-mail address directly. Or send a
letter to their Callbook address (and include an SASE if you desire a quick


6) Related Mailing Lists

6.01) Contest results group -- 3830 at

This mailing list is a forum dedicated to post-contest score reports, as is
done on 3830 KHz after contests. Summaries of the scores reported to this
mailing list are posted on CQ-Contest on a regular basis after contests. To
subscribe to this mailing list, send a message to
3830-request at that says SUBSCRIBE.

6.02) Kids contest group -- kids at

This mailing list is used to post the results of the SquINT contests which
are announced on CQ-CONTEST. These contests encourage kids to participate
in a fun filled event and gain exposure to amateur radio and contesting.
Contact n6tr at to sign up and receive a copy of the rules.

6.03) CT users group -- ct-user at

This mailing list is a forum dedicated to the CT Logging Program, by K1EA.
To subscribe to this mailing list, send a message to
ct-user-request at that says SUBSCRIBE.

6.04) NA users group -- na-user at

This mailing list is a forum dedicated to the MA Logging Program, by K8CC.
To subscribe to this mailing list, send a message to
na-user-request at that says SUBSCRIBE.

6.05) SuperDuper users group -- sd-user at

This mailing list is a forum dedicated to the SuperDuper Logging Program,
by EI5DI. To subscribe to this mailing list, send a message to

6.06) TRLOG users group -- trlog at

This mailing list is a forum dedicated to the TRLOG Logging Program, by
N6TR. To subscribe to this mailing list, send a message to
trlog-request at that says SUBSCRIBE.

6.07) Internet DX Reflector - dx at

This mailing list is a forum dedicated to Amateur Radio DXing. To subscribe
to this mailing list, send a message to dx-request at that


7) Internet Resources for Contesters

7.01) Contest Log Submissions

Jimmy Floyd, WA4ZXA (floydjr at is the unofficial Internet
scorekeeper. He compiles the "score rumors" that are posted to the 3830 and
CQ-Contest reflectors.

          Contest Name                   Address
 ARRL Contests                 contest at
 CQ WPX                        n8bjq at
 DARC Worked All Europe (WAE)  100712.2226 at
 NCJ Sprint (CW)               cwsprint at
 NCJ Sprint (SSB)              aoniswan at
 North American QSO Party (CW) w9nq at
 North American QSO Party (SSB)merchant at

7.02) World Wide Web

 Contesting On-line     
 ARRL Contest Branch    
 CQ Contest Magazine    
 National Contest Journal (NCJ)
 KA9FOX Web Page        
 LA9HW Web Page         
 OH2KI Web Page         
 WB2K Contest DXpedition Registry
 CT by K1EA Software    
 Super Duper by EI5DI   
 TR by N6TR             


8) Finding out more about the Internet

Pick up a copy of the book The Internet Companion by Tracy LaQuey,
Addison-Wesley, ISBN 0-201-62224-6. If your local technical book store
doesn't carry it, you can order from Computer Literacy, 2590 North First
Street, San Jose, CA 95131. Their phone number is +1 408 435-0744.


This FAQ was written by Trey Garlough, WN4KKN (trey at cisco.COM) and
converted to HTML by Jim Reisert, AD1C (AD1C at Many thanks to Jim
and to everyone else who has contributed to this FAQ.

>From apmeyer at (ALEX A.P. MEYER)  Fri Sep 27 12:56:15 1996
From: apmeyer at (ALEX A.P. MEYER) (ALEX A.P. MEYER)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 04:56:15 -0700
Subject: Need help downloading.
Message-ID: <199609271156.EAA00269 at>

I need to download Plus386.EXE from KD7P (Logplus Program),in 
Washington State.

For some reasoon I can not down load that file.

I can download a ZIP file but not a EXE file.

Why I do not know.

Any help out here?

Any one can download that file for me and send itto me in Ziped form.

Thanks 73 es DX ..............ALEX.........WB6AFJ................

PS:LOGPLUS PHONE:1-360-653-9652


>From wb4flb at (Robert G Hext)  Fri Sep 27 16:19:54 1996
From: wb4flb at (Robert G Hext) (Robert G Hext)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:19:54 PST
Subject: 24 hour contest clock
Message-ID: <19960927.071956.6423.0.WB4FLB at>

The quartz movement of my 24 hour contest clock died recently.  I can't
find a replacement  movement.  I have found several but all are 12 hour
movements.  Any one have any ideas where I can a replacement??  I needs
to be a mini quarts clock movement for a 24 hour clock, and I think I
need a short or medium shaft.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks and 73  Gary, WB4FLB
wb4flb at

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