[CQ-Contest] Orion Top Ten interface

WD4K Ttow1 at Charter.net
Fri May 9 22:38:41 EDT 2003


I have completed all of the testing on the Orion to Top Ten decoder
prototype interface. It performs flawlessly. The operation is clean with no
evidence of rfi. Per my previous email, this allows new Orion owners who use
Top Ten Devices decoders and switching systems to use their existing setup
with no outboard modifications, ie; existing custom switching and
programming headers. Dave (N3RD) will be at Dayton ..or any inquiries about
specific uses, availability, pricing etc., should be sent to him at
N3RD at ARRL.NET.  It is my understanding that this will be available as a mod
kit for existing Top Ten decoders or as a new decoder item if desired. He
will also be offering a custom made 15 pin cable to the Orion.
Many many thanks to Dave for moving on this so quickly. His products,
service and customer support are a credit to him and a great benefit to
those who enjoy this hobby.
73, Tommy WD4K

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Today's Topics:

   1. More on Orion de W4PA (Scott R.)
   2. Fwd: RE: [CQ-Contest] TenTec Orion questions regarding SO2R
        suitability (Bill Tippett)
   3. Dayton Contester Super Suite (Tim Duffy K3LR)
   4. Re: Orion
   5. Oregon QSO Party this weekend (Dick Frey)
   6. Re: More on Orion de W4PA (Kenneth E. Harker)
   7. Oregon QSO Party - TR config and .dom county files (Dick Frey)
   8. FISTS SPRINT (Dennis)
   9. RE: W3NQN Bandpass Filter Article (Eric Scace  K3NA)
  10. Crowne Plaza Room Available (jacobo oduber)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 08:20:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Scott R." <w4pa at yahoo.com>
To: cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: [CQ-Contest] More on Orion de W4PA
Message-ID: <20030509152046.20667.qmail at web40906.mail.yahoo.com>
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>Scott,

>I find the following verbatim quote from Ten-Tec's website *very* >
>misleading:

>'"Instant Two Radio Mode" allows ORION to instantly QSY between two
>different bands. Two linear amplifiers, two sets of accessory devices
>via dual band data outputs and two antennas can optionally be
>connected to ORION to allow instantaneous QSY (useful for seeking out
>and working stations on one band during a contest while CQing on a
>different band, for example).'

>If that's not a description of SO2R, I don't know what is (and I do
>quite a bit of SO2R myself.) If both receivers are muted during
>transmit, I don't see how you can say that the radio will let you seek
>out stations (i.e., receive them) on one band while CQing (i.e.,
>transmitting) on another band.

I wrote the text in question, and I'm an SO2R contester, and I don't
agree.  Many contesters have the facility to 1) pick off multipliers in
between CQing on the same radio as is done with rigs like the FT1000MP
now plus 2) the Orion does much more for two receiver operation than
any other rig that has come before it.  Routing two antennas separately
to each receiver with the facility to switch to even a third antenna on
either receiver.  Separate band data jacks for controlling remote
devices per receiver.  Two linear amplifier keying outputs for running
two linears.  Routable audio through the speaker or user-assignable
headphone controls (what good is a second receiver if you have to
listen to all the audio from both receivers in both ears?) Everything
on the radio controllable via RS-232 (hence, via contesting software).
Other rigs aren't doing this - and I would venture to say that Orion is
going to certainly color the distinction that has been argued over and
over again about what constitutes SO2R vs. SO1R as a direct result,
too.

Focusing on whether the opposite receiver mutes is losing sight of
everything else this radio has for contesting, period (not just SO2R).

>I even went so far as to inquire of Writelog's author whether he would
>support automatic SO2R switching for the ORION (i.e., use rig control
>commands for TX and audio switching instead of
>flipping bits on the LPT port.) He also would have had to modify
>Writelog's rig control code to deal with two "rigs" over one COM port.
>All that is certainly possible with ORION's robust command set, but
>useless if both receivers are muted during transmit.

At the moment, it's still an issue then because the Orion acts much
like two independent transceivers would.  There are two sets of
everything for output on the rig - software would do well to accomodate
being able to deliver packet spots needed on other bands to the radio
on the subreceiver.  Packet delivers a spot, Writelog grabs the spot,
delivers it to the subreceiver.  Orion reacts by switching accessory
devices out the 2nd data port; you're ready for the QSO, on another
band, with whatever big antennas you're using, and you haven't touched
the radio.  Sounds pretty darn advantageous to me, like a second radio
in the same box, and just the fact that the opposite receiver mutes
while transmitting negates all the contesting features this radio has
built into it?

I guess I am surprised by this, because I asked for a whole lot of
this to be put into Orion on the basis that contesters would
immediately see what a paradigm shift this radio truly is - I think,
though, I may have my work cut out for me explaining how truly
amazing this piece of gear is for contesting.

I hope that Writelog also writes in a lot of non-packet stuff that
could be used to control the radio - i.e. hearing a signal on the
subreceiver and sending an autocommand from the software to tell the
radio you want to transmit on the subreceiver frequency (or band) -
that way the Orion operator doesn't even have to touch the radio to
work the second QSO on the subreceiver band and then return to
CQing on the original receiver frequency.

>Anyway, I suggest you reword the paragraph to be less misleading. I
>would not use the term "Two Radio Mode". That's just too close to
>Single-OP Two Radio, especially when used in the same paragraph with
>the word "contest".  Also, I would leave out the entire phrase in
>parens at the end of the aragraph. Unless you want to rely on the slim
>technicality that you can hear between CQs (or code elements with full
>break-in), the claim is simply not true.

I disagree, I've used plenty of examples for what a breakthrough this
transceiver is, and I have no intention of changing the text as
written on the Ten-Tec website.  "Instant Two Radio Mode" on the Orion
is much more than merely listening to a pair of receivers.

The "typical" contester using ONE transceiver is now at a huge
advantage using Orion over anything else that is out there today just
by virtue of all the duplicated features we have packed into the radio.
The SO2R contester, as I pointed out yesterday, could have 4 bands
going, 4 amps, 4 sets of transmit antennas and Beverages interfaced to
the two radios all at one time.  Did I mention ultra high end receiver
performance, too?  :-)

Scott Robbins, W4PA


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 11:33:12 -0400
From: Bill Tippett <btippett at alum.mit.edu>
To: cq-contest at contesting.com, jukka.klemola at nokia.com
Subject: Fwd: RE: [CQ-Contest] TenTec Orion questions regarding SO2R
  suitability
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030509112940.021c6510 at pop.vnet.net>
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>Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] TenTec Orion questions regarding SO2R
suitability
>Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 17:40:20 +0300
>X-MS-Has-Attach:
>X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
>Thread-Topic: [CQ-Contest] TenTec Orion questions regarding SO2R
suitability
>Thread-Index: AcMWNAwXjkEUYlSzRFu/bXqixCcbNwAAzR0Q
>From: <jukka.klemola at nokia.com>
>To: <btippett at alum.mit.edu>
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 May 2003 14:40:21.0781 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[EB476450:01C31638]
>
>Hei Bill,
>We measured many radios phase noises in the 90's.
>IC781 was by far the best. But that was TX only.
>Regarding effects through the injection, we thought
>the receiver would be as good.
>
>Receiver 2kHz frequency difference blocking test was not done.
>Point taken.
>..we would have had sufficient signal generators and mixers
>to do also that measurement already back then.
>
>Good thinking.
>
>
>I am sure this approach you have now:
>
>*Analysing and demanding cleaner TX and specifying
>the close range spectrum
>*Analysing and demanding better close-in-frequency RX
>blocking/dynamics and specifying that
>
>Will bring us better radios in three years, if not
>sooner as we can clearly benchmark them against each
>other.
>May the best radios win this contest !
>
>
>You can send my texts freely to reflector if you
>feel they are of any value.
>
>
>Thanks & 73,
>Jukka

Amen Jukka!  Well said. We all win if we get manufacturers
to compete in areas that are important to us rather than
just "whistles and bells"!

73,  Bill




------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 10:54:45 -0500
From: Tim Duffy K3LR <k3lr at k3lr.com>
To: cq-contest at contesting.com, towertalk at contesting.com,
   "ncc at contesting.com" <ncc at contesting.com>, mrrc at contesting.com,
   yccc at contesting.com
Subject: [CQ-Contest] Dayton Contester Super Suite
Message-ID: <3EBBCF45.AE8839C1 at k3lr.com>
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Message: 3

As you are making your last minute plans for Dayton,
don't forget about the Contest Super Suite.

I have received many emails indicating that there
will be lots of first time DX Contester visitors this
year.

There is no cost to attend the large suite.

There is a cash bar inside the room.

Thursday, May 15, Friday, May 16 and Saturday, May 17th.

>From 7 PM to 2 AM every night

Located in the Miami Room (2nd Floor) at the Crowne Plaza Hotel
(downtown) Dayton.

The CONTEST SUPER SUITE is hosted by North Coast Contesters,
The Frankford Radio Club, The Mad River Radio Club and sponsored by RF
Applications. Contesters and DXers are invited to join us for an evening
of great conversation and product demonstrations.
Room for over 300 DXers and Contesters.

Email K3LR at k3lr.com if you have questions

The fun starts next Thursday night. See you there!!!!

73!
Tim K3LR
------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 10:52:27 -0500
From: ke9v at yahoo.com
To: <cq-contest at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Orion
Message-ID: <3EBB886B.13548.B03E46 at localhost>
In-Reply-To: <001301c31634$23cdb4a0$6f67fea9 at chartertn.net>
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On 9 May 2003 at 10:06, Lynn Lamb wrote:

> The Orion is real, performs as advertised, more than any rig on the
> market, designed, built and serviced in the U.S., and can/will be
> updated as time moves on....free.  You are one of the best operators

I'm looking for more quantification on the actual value vs the cost delta of
an Orion and
other high-end rigs. It's easy to be a cheerleader and say the Orion is the
coolest thing
since sliced bread but I've noticed in the orion discussion, no one talks
about cost--
almost as though that doesn't matter.

Is the Orion worth thousands of dollars more than, say, a PRO2 or a MkV?
That is the
real question in my mind. I don't doubt that the Orion is good. Probably
damn good. But
to the $3300 base price when you add some filters to get those incredible
numbers
plus a microphone you have $4000+ invested in an Orion.

The PRO2 will be selling in the $2K range at Dayton next week.

Is one Orion worth two PRO2's in a contest?

73 de Jeff
------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 08:56:54 -0700
From: Dick Frey <DFrey at advancedpower.com>
To: "CQ-Contest (E-mail)" <cq-contest at contesting.com>
Subject: [CQ-Contest] Oregon QSO Party this weekend
Message-ID:
<61DBE6F9DAF9D3119A9400508B558B11017BC826 at apt01ex1.apt.advancedpower.com>
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The Oregon QSO Party is Saturday.
All Counties will be active, listen for the mobile activity 40kHz up on CW
and on 7270, 14270, 21370 and 28370 on ssb.
Great prizes for the top stations.
Details at www.codxc.org.

Dick, k4xu
------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 11:26:26 -0500
From: "Kenneth E. Harker" <kharker at cs.utexas.edu>
To: "Scott R." <w4pa at yahoo.com>
Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] More on Orion de W4PA
Message-ID: <20030509162626.GB4285 at cs.utexas.edu>
In-Reply-To: <20030509152046.20667.qmail at web40906.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030509152046.20667.qmail at web40906.mail.yahoo.com>
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On Fri, May 09, 2003 at 08:20:46AM -0700, Scott R. wrote:

> >I find the following verbatim quote from Ten-Tec's website *very* >
> >misleading:
>
> >'"Instant Two Radio Mode" allows ORION to instantly QSY between two
> >different bands. Two linear amplifiers, two sets of accessory devices
> >via dual band data outputs and two antennas can optionally be
> >connected to ORION to allow instantaneous QSY (useful for seeking out
> >and working stations on one band during a contest while CQing on a
> >different band, for example).'
>
> >If that's not a description of SO2R, I don't know what is (and I do
> >quite a bit of SO2R myself.) If both receivers are muted during
> >transmit, I don't see how you can say that the radio will let you seek
> >out stations (i.e., receive them) on one band while CQing (i.e.,
> >transmitting) on another band.

I agree.  I've only barely dabbled in SO2R myself, and I think the quoted
paragraph is *very* misleading if both receivers mute on transmit.  The
whole point of having a second radio is to be able to listen to another
band _while transmitting_.

> Focusing on whether the opposite receiver mutes is losing sight of
> everything else this radio has for contesting, period (not just SO2R).

This doesn't change the fact that Ten-Tec marketing is promising a "two
radio mode" that doesn't really exist in the radio the way it is described.
Sorta makes me wonder what else there is to discover...

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kenneth E. Harker      "Vox Clamantis in Deserto"      kharker at cs.utexas.edu
University of Texas at Austin                   Amateur Radio Callsign: WM5R
Department of the Computer Sciences          Central Texas DX & Contest Club
Taylor Hall TAY 2.124                         Maintainer of Linux on Laptops
Austin, TX 78712-1188 USA            http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 10:58:03 -0700
From: Dick Frey <DFrey at advancedpower.com>
To: "CQ-Contest (E-mail)" <cq-contest at contesting.com>
Subject: [CQ-Contest] Oregon QSO Party - TR config and .dom county files
Message-ID:
<61DBE6F9DAF9D3119A9400508B558B11017BC87B at apt01ex1.apt.advancedpower.com>
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I have been told that the FTP on our website is not working - not unexpected
with a $6/month web hosting service.

If you need TR config and .dom files, drop me a like here or home.

Dick       k4xu at arrl.net
------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 14:06:09 -0400
From: "Dennis" <roofus at sbcglobal.net>
To: <CQ-Contest at contesting.com>
Subject: [CQ-Contest] FISTS SPRINT
Message-ID: <001d01c31655$ab7245d0$0202a8c0 at Dennis>
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Tomorrow is the FISTS SPRINT from 1700z - 2100z.  I know it's not =
something you big guns look forward to but if you get a chance stop by =
for a few contacts, us newbie CW op's and contesters would love to hear =
you.

Thanks,
Dennis  AB8NI
FISTS 8657From mjwetzel at comcast.net Fri May  9 16:37:46 2003
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Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 15:36:52 -0500
From: Mike Wetzel <mjwetzel at comcast.net>
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Subject: [CQ-Contest] W3NQN Bandpass Filter Article
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Does anyone remember the magazine, issue or year of the  construction
article on the bandpass filters?

Thanks,

Mike W9RE

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 17:18:16 -0400
From: "Eric Scace  K3NA" <eric at K3NA.ORG>
To: <mjwetzel at comcast.net>, <cq-contest at CONTESTING.COM>
Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] W3NQN Bandpass Filter Article
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Message: 9

QST 1998 May, page 44 ff.

-----Original Message-----
From: cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com
[mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com]On Behalf Of Mike Wetzel
Sent: 2003 May 9 Friday 16:37
To: cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: [CQ-Contest] W3NQN Bandpass Filter Article


Does anyone remember the magazine, issue or year of the  construction
article on the bandpass filters?

Thanks,

Mike W9RE

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 14:38:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: jacobo oduber <p43p_mailbox at yahoo.com>
To: cq-contest at contesting.com
Subject: [CQ-Contest] Crowne Plaza Room Available
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Due to work commitments, looks like I will not make it to Dayton for the
Hamvention. I have a confirmed room available for the Crown Plaza for
arrival on Thursday. Email me to this address if you are interested. Have
fun Jacob Oduber - P43P

---------------------------------
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.From k6acz at earthlink.net Fri
May  9 20:05:31 2003
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If I remember right from days long time ago working on a farm as a
teenager, that farm animals "learn" after a few shocks to stay away
from an electric fence and you can turn it off.  Can you persuade your
neighbor to turn it off after the animals learn to stay away from it.
Also, no how much someone dares you, DO NOT pee on an active electric
fence.
73

Duane Grotophorst wrote:
>
> Having been both in farming and ham radio at the same
> some years ago I can attest that electric fences can
> be electrically quiet. When I was still on the farm we
> had miles of the stuff, some of it within 50 ft of my
> antennas, I had very little trouble with noise from
> it. My experience was that it is not the weeds growing
> into the fence and arching that generate the noise,
> including the "weed" burner type of fence charger. It
> is almost always instead a poor connection between
> fence segments, or between the fence charger and its
> ground system/rod.
>
> Think about a 3-6 KV (@ a few ma) circuit (being
> pulsed for .1 - .8 second durations) coupling to a
> high impedance antenna (the 1000's of feet of fence)
> through a spark gap (the poor connection). That is
> essentially a spark gap transmitter!!! However in the
> case of the weed growing into the fence it would be an
> arc through a relatively low impedance to ground.
> Since the weed stem is resistive and is also a short
> distance to ground it would not generate much, if any
> radio noise, even though the arching was very audible
> when you'd walk by it.
>
> When I was building electric fence I always used a
> "linemans" splice to connect different wire segments
> using minimum of 8 - 10 turns when joining sections.
> For areas that needed a gateway I always made sure
> that the wire that made up the gate would be pulled
> quite tight when connected to its hook. The bottom
> line that it came down to was making sure that all
> electrical connections were mechanically solid and
> proper. A sloppy job of making the connections didn't
> really hurt the fence's performance all that much for
> keeping the critters in there proper places, but it
> did make a big difference for RFI issues.
>
> Duane
> N9DG


--
__________________________________________________________________________
                                Alan Zack
		         Amateur Radio Station K6ACZ
                      Anaheim, Southern California, USA
                   Home of the World Series Winners ANGELS
                Quality Engineer, The Boeing Company, Retired
         Aviation Chief Warrant Officer, U.S. Coast Guard, Retired
                U.S. Coast Guard, Always Ready, Always There
        Every hour, Every day, Around the Clock and Around the World
                              SEMPER PARATUS
------------------------------

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