[CQ-Contest] Secrets of Contesting, Chapter 14

James Neiger n6tj at sbcglobal.net
Sun Feb 1 19:57:18 EST 2004

Poignant words, indeed, from our friend to the north, Kelly.

Gosh, when I composed Ch. 14, after too much prodding from my friend in the
East, NEVER did I realize I'd be stirring-up such a hornet's nest.

  To all of you that couldn't care less about IDing, my profound apologies.
And to all those who care, thank you for at least having considered thoughts
about operating skills, the lack thereof, patience/impatience, eti-Q, etc

And now I'm seeing that my student (who is now surpassing the teacher),
CT1BOH, is voicing his opinion.  Haven't read it yet, but I'm pretty
confident what Jose will say.

The bottom-line for me is:

(1) Anyone who ventures into a position where he is the target, can pretty
much run HIS pileup anyway he desires.  If you don't like it, don't call.
If enough don't call, HE will suffer too, and hopefully change his ways.  Or

(2) As some have opined, How Arrogant for these jerks to not ID.  Who do
they think they are, anyway?

and finally,

(3) For all those with opinions, as reasoned and as sound as they may very
well be, if you would like to go out on a contest DXpedition and show the
rest of us HOW TO DO IT, please do so.  I'll most likely be cheering you on.

Vy 73

Jim Neiger  N6TJ  ZD8Z

-----Original Message-----
From: cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com
[mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com]On Behalf Of Kelly Taylor
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 8:45 AM
To: CQ Contest
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Secrets of Contesting, Chapter 14

Jim's admonition about not calling unless you know the ID of the station
you're calling only reiterates one of the fundamental principles of on-air
behaviour, contesting or otherwise. That it has generated such opposition is

Jumping into a pileup when you don't know who you're calling is wrong. It's
called interference. It's made no less wrong by the perceived sin of not
IDing frequently. Two wrongs don't make a right.

(How is a pileup itself not interference? It's like pass interference in
football: If all the ops calling know who the other guy is, they're all
making plays for the ball. Any resulting bumping and grinding is just part
of the game. If one doesn't know the call, he isn't reaching for the ball,
he's just getting in the way.)

Generally, arrogant operators excepted, those at the centre of a pileup
choose to lessen the frequency of ID because they feel they have enough
operators in the pileup who know who they are. That it's an inconvenience
for you is of little consequence to them. In essence, they're like car
dealers selling every model they can get their hands on: if you don't want
to pay asking price, step aside, the thousand guys in line behind you will.

The best advice is this: if the DX isn't IDing frequently enough, get over
it. You aren't going to change his ways no matter how many CL? or "Your
call?" you fire at him.

Don't worry about losing the mult. Chances are good that if his pileup is
that big, he's going to be there a while. So put him in a Quick Mem and
worry more about the mults and Qs you're losing by fuming over his lack of
ID. Generally speaking, one mult is worth no more than another. Heard Island
is still just one country. So is Galapagos. On a busy band, you'll lose more
mults and Qs by waiting than one guy is worth. So don't sweat it. You're not
going to work 'em all anyway.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth E. Harker" <kharker at cs.utexas.edu>
To: "CQ Contest" <cq-contest at contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Secrets of Contesting, Chapter 14

> On Fri, Jan 30, 2004 at 11:19:01PM -0800, James Neiger wrote:
> >
> > Secrets of Contesting, Chapter 14
> ...
> > 3. Never, ever, call a station unless you know 100% his callsign.  Ever.
> > (please see 1. and 2., above).  It's truly amazing to me HOW MANY call
> > without a clue.  Is this sound operating?  I think not.  Yes, the DX
> > has the ultimate responsibility to identify on a regular basis.  In that
> > there are no defined standards, I can well appreciate that some
> > 'ambiguities' might exist.  However, I believe that unless YOUR rate is
> > per hour, it is your responsibility to harken to the DX station's
> > procedure.  Please, if you don't like it, don't call.  Simple.
> I totally disagree with this.
> Many DX stations arrogantly feel that they can make _many_ QSOs in a
> row without giving out their callsign.  A lot of them, I am sure, are
> relying upon the packet network to inform the W/VE stations of their
> callsign.  But, whether it's laziness or arrogance, or both, the problem
> for the serious W/VE contester is the same.  When a W/VE contester
> tunes across a DX station that is not giving out a callsign, the W/VE
> can either wait (for who knows how long) or call the DX station and
> ask for the callsign if they get through.  Waiting is NEVER the right
> decision for the W/VE station that wants to make as many QSOs as possible.
> To call and ask for a callsign if you get through is ALWAYS going to
> be faster for the W/VE station.
> DX stations that refuse to sign frequently enough are gambling.  They are
> gambling that their time is more valuable to them than the W/VE stations'
> time is valuable to the W/VE stations.  This may even be true for the vast
> majority of W/VE stations that the DX works.  Nevertheless, DX stations
> sign infrequently should not be upset when their gamble fails once in
> a while, and a W/VE station calls and asks for a callsign.  If the DX
> station is not willing to put up with that, they should not complain
> to everyone on the planet that the W/VE station is "clueless" or
> "irresponsible."   They should instead learn to sign more frequently.
> Simple.
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Kenneth E. Harker      "Vox Clamantis in Deserto"
kharker at cs.utexas.edu
> University of Texas at Austin                   Amateur Radio Callsign:
> Department of the Computer Sciences          Central Texas DX & Contest
> Taylor Hall TAY 2.124                         Maintainer of Linux on
> Austin, TX 78712-1188 USA
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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