[CQ-Contest] The Skimmer Rule Challenge

[Pete Smith]

What Alex, VE3NEA is referring to on the website is the *format* of the 
Telnet output, not the mode of distribution.  This was done specifically so 
that logging programs could connect *locally* to Skimmer without the 
logging programs themselves having to be modified in any way.  I know - I 
worked with him to define and test how this should work.

73, Pete


At 07:20 PM 6/11/2008, W5OV wrote:

>Joe,
>
>You are persistent if nothing else. You are 100% incorrect however.
>
>I refer you once again to the skimmer website where it lists the following
>as one of its features:
>
>"The extracted callsigns are exported as DX cluster spots via the built-in
>Telnet cluster server".
>
>How can you say: " No, NO, NO!  Skimmer is not "Spotting assistance" it is a
>
>CW Decoder".
>
>Perhaps the author of Skimmer doesn't understand his program?
>
>I rest my case.
>
>73,
>
>Bob W5OV
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe Subich, W4TV [mailto:w4tv at subich.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 1:05 PM
>To: 'Robert Naumann'; ve4xt at mts.net; 'Kerr,Prof. K.M.'; 'Michael Coslo';
>'cq-contesting cq-contest'; k5go at cox.net
>Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] The Skimmer Rule Challenge
>
>
> > Note: the rule says spotting assistance *OR* nets involving
> > others etc. It does not say spotting assistance that only is
> > provided by other people.
>
>No, NO, NO!  Skimmer is not "Spotting assistance" it is a
>CW Decoder.  The key, even to the ARRL rules is involvement of
>other individuals.  The words "operating arrangements involving
>other individuals" specifically defines "Spotting assistance"
>which can just as easily involve a non-licensed INDIVIDUAL who
>tunes a second receiver and makes an on-paper list of station
>calls and frequencies for the "primary" operator to work.
>
>To answer Stan's question:
>
> > However, there are a few questions.
> >
> > 1.  Was the rule made so that there would be a category for the
> > vast majority who want to compete using skill to find stations
> > to work or was the rule put in place to create a category where
> > it would be okay by any means, other than another operator, to
> > make use of a list of callsigns and frequencies?
>
>The rule was put in place so those who chose to make use of data
>from other operators by way of packet or the internet would not
>be forced to enter the multi-operator/single-transmitter class.
>It says nothing about using CW decoders and multiple (or fast
>scanning) receivers.
>
>In every case the rule is about other operators (individuals or
>persons) - not productivity enhancing technology.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert Naumann [mailto:w5ov at w5ov.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:19 AM
> > To: 'Joe Subich, W4TV'; ve4xt at mts.net; 'Kerr,Prof. K.M.';
> > 'Michael Coslo'; 'cq-contesting cq-contest'
> > Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] The Skimmer Rule Challenge
> >
> >
> > Just some factual input:
> > The ARRL rules already make the situation for single ops very clear.
> >
> > From the ARRL General rules:
> > 2.1.Single Operator: One person performs all transmitting,
> > receiving, and logging functions as well as equipment and
> > antenna adjustments.
> > 2.1.1.Use of spotting assistance or nets (operating
> > arrangements involving other individuals, DX-alerting nets,
> > packet, Internet, etc) is not permitted.
> >
> > Note: the rule says spotting assistance *OR* nets involving
> > others etc. It does not say spotting assistance that only is
> > provided by other people.
> >
> > So, the CQWW and ARRL rules for single op both agree as
> > written that spotting assistance of any kind is forbidden for
> > single operators regardless of the source. Neither of these
> > rules needs to be revised.
> >
> > I think the WPX rules as written need to be revised to align
> > not only with CQWW and ARRL but to make sense as pointed out
> > by VR2BG recently. I cannot understand what the WPX Single Op
> > rule is trying to say related to spotting:
> >
> > 1. Single Operator (Single Band and All Band) (SINGLE-OP ALL
> > HIGH or SINGLE-OP [BAND] HIGH)
> > (a) One person performs all of the operating, logging, and,
> > for the Assisted category only, spotting functions. Only one
> > transmitted signal is allowed at any time. Maximum power
> > allowed is 1500 watts total output.
> >
> > Perhaps this was simply a typo that no one caught. In the
> > past (2004) the WPX rule was:
> >
> > 1. Single Operator (Single band and All band)
> > (a). Single operator stations are those at which one person
> > performs all of the operating, logging and spotting
> > functions. Only one transmitted signal is allowed at any
> > time. Maximum power allowed is 1500 watts total output power.
> >
> > The way that assistance was addressed at that time also
> > matches up with the CQWW and ARRL rules:
> >
> > (d) Assisted: Same as 1(a) except the passive use (no self
> > spotting) of DX spotting nets or other forms of DX alerting
> > is permitted. Stations in this category will compete with
> > other Assisted stations only.
> >
> > If the WPX rules were put back the way they were (and should
> > be), all 3 of the "biggies" would clearly agree that the use
> > of *any* type of spotting assistance would not be permitted
> > for single operators.
> >
> > Since it is clear that Skimmer does in fact provide spotting
> > assistance, the rules do not need to be changed to address it.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Bob W5OV
> >
> >
>
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