[CQ-Contest] Re; Skimmer Ultimate Setup

David Kopacz david.kopacz at aspwebhosting.com
Sat Mar 22 16:37:58 EDT 2008 

This whole argument reminds me of the movie Grumpy Old Men!

If you want to operate your station remotely, then do it, declare it and
have fun. 

If you want a program to skim the band for contacts, then do it, declare
it and have fun.

What's all the argument over?

In the end, the only thing necessary to keep in mind is the spirit of
the competition. For example, using packet clusters, skimming the band
and finding station the old fashioned way are NOT the same. Could you
imagine running a 1KM race where one guy is a trained athlete and the
other guy is Steve Austin, the six million dollar man? They are both
running aren't they?

Keep saying it over and over....what is the spirit of the competition?
There you will find the only true answer! 


KY1V



> I contend the capability to pick out (basically) all the 
> signals on a band with a wide IF and software and then display 
> these data for either a human to click on them and call them, 
> or a robot to do the same, will kill the hobby.

Just as I contend that allowing remote operation via commercial 
means will surely kill the hobby.  The difference is that Skimmer 
technology will change the hobby and we can adapt to that change. 
replacing one part of the communications channel from operator 
to operator with commercial communications channels means that 
forward looking regulators can decide if one part of the channel 
can be replaced by commercial means, the entire channel can be 
replaced by commercial means and the defining characteristic of 
amateur radio (person to person communication by RF/ionosphere) 
is lost completely. 

> It is time for the broader thinking people to step in and 
> rule out this capability. 

The same can be said for remote operation.  If you believe your 
thesis that some technologies, while interesting, are simply not 
compatible with amateur radio you must draw the same line for 
ALL technologies that have the potential to significantly change 
amateur radio.  Now, where would that line have been drawn?  

CW significantly changed amateur radio in the days of spark ... 
AM significantly changed amateur radio in the days of CW .. 
SSB significantly changed amateur radio in the days of AM ... 
The transistor significantly changed amateur radio from the 
days of tube radios ... 
Digital Signal Processing is significantly changing amateur 
radio ... 
The personal computer has significantly changed amateur radio in 
many ways - from logging to digital mode operation to CW decoding ... 
 
Technology moves on - both amateur radio in general and contesting 
specifically will change.  Contesting will adapt to technology 
adapt technology to contesting but that does not mean one should 
"ban" any technology that makes the single operator more productive. 



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim George [mailto:n3bb at mindspring.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 8:04 AM
> To: Joe Subich, W4TV
> Cc: cq-contest at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Re; Skimmer Ultimate Setup
> 
> 
> Joe, you and I are on different philosophical wavelengths on this and 
> remote operations.
> 
> I contend the capability to pick out (basically) all the 
> signals on a band 
> with a wide IF and software and then display these data for 
> either a human 
> to click on them and call them, or a robot to do the same, 
> will kill the 
> hobby.
> 
> It is time for the broader thinking people to step in and 
> rule out this 
> capability. It's technically correct that the technology is contained 
> within the local station, so I agree that following closely 
> the rule of 
> allowing one's single-op technology to produce productivity 
> improvements 
> lies within the framework of traditional efficiency 
> increases. But I also 
> contend that this leads to automatic robotic operation, 
> certainly not good 
> for the sport in my opinion.
> 
> The solution is practical; simply state that all signals must 
> be copied by 
> humans. This will allow RTTY contesting to progress along the 
> Skimmer/robotic path. But SSB and CW contests need to remain 
> "human-based."
> 
> Jim George N3BB
> 
> At 01:22 PM 3/21/2008 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> > > To say there is a difference between an packet connection feeding 
> > > information that was generated by another operator OR another 
> > > operator's Skimmer setup and "owning your own" wide-band receiver 
> > > which feeds the same information to your software is really 
> > > splitting hairs.
> >
> >There is absolutely a clear, bright, absolute difference between 
> >information (not "spots") that comes from one's own station and 
> >information generated by other operators whether it be from packet, 
> >talent or the next room.  Far from splitting a hair, the 
> difference is 
> >as fundamental as north vs. south or east vs. west.
> >
> >There is no "hair splitting" at all - assistance means 
> assistance from 
> >another human operator.  It does not count automation in any form 
> >whether that be a memory keyer/DVK, computer logging or even the 
> >"station owner" fixing antennas or amplifiers so the 
> operator can keep 
> >his butt in the chair.
> >
> >CW Skimmer is in the category of memory keyer/DVK, computer 
> >logging/duping or mechanical pencils.  That ship sailed 40 years ago.
> >
> >73,
> >
> >    ... Joe, W4TV
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com 
> > > [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Stan 
> > > Stockton
> > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 10:21 AM
> > > To: cq-contest at contesting.com
> > > Subject: [CQ-Contest] Re; Skimmer Ultimate Setup
> > >
> > >
> > > Let's see if I have this right.....  Many people are making the 
> > > assumption that Skimmer is just another tool for the 
> Single Operator 
> > > UNASSISTED Category entrant?
> > >
> > > I have hope there are enough who can see beyond today who believe 
> > > this is a tool for the Single Operator ASSISTED category.  To say
> > > there is a
> > > difference between an packet connection feeding 
> information that was
> > > generated by another operator OR another operator's Skimmer
> > > setup and "owning your own" wide-band receiver which feeds
> > > the same information to your software is really splitting hairs.
> > >
> > > In my opinion, If you are unassisted, you do not have any 
> THING or 
> > > any ONE telling you the callsign and frequency of a 
> station that you 
> > > can work to improve your score.
> > >
> > > The ultimate set up, if it is allowed, is write software to have 
> > > your rig QSY to the most appropriate spot (based on where 
> your yagi 
> > > is pointed, which spot will most likely improve your 
> score the most 
> > > and have the rig make the
> > > contact and log it for you and then go to the next one.
> > > Same set up on the run frequency.  The more rigs you have the
> > > better your score will be.  I can see it now "Oh, cool!.  I
> > > worked VU2PTT the first night on 20M and the computer moved
> > > him to 40M where I also worked him.  Never heard him, but saw
> > > him in the log.
> > >
> > > It makes me want to go find my golf clubs instead of 
> thinking about 
> > > radio 24/7.
> > >
> > > Stan, K5GO
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > > CQ-Contest at contesting.com 
> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >CQ-Contest mailing list
> >CQ-Contest at contesting.com 
> >http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> 
> 

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