[CQ-Contest] Skimmer in CQ WPX CW

Sat May 24 08:54:29 EDT 2008

---- David Robbins K1TTT <k1ttt at arrl.net> wrote: 
> I think he made it perfectly clear:

> "The current single op rules do not prevent the use of a skimmer located within your own station." 

> Note the 'within your own station' part of the sentence...  is that not
> clear enough to mean that using a skimmer located on another continent is not within the single op rules??

David,

I really try my best to make a habit of reading what the other guy 
has said before I respond to something.  It would be a good thing
if you did the same.  We have had this very same probelm in the past.

What we were discussing ONLY pertained to assisted and 
multi-operator and Skimmer set ups that were not local.  Here is is again, right out of the box at the beginning of the original e-mail:

"Just curious Randy.  Someone in Europe has a CW Skimmer
set  up and a multi-operator or assisted entrant in the USA is
using it. "

Please let me know if you see anything in this e-mail that indicates we are talking about a single operator, unassisted entrant or a local Skimmer Spotting set up.  Good grief!  How can it be made more clear?

73...Stan, K5GO

> David Robbins K1TTT
> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
> web: http://www.k1ttt.net
> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com [mailto:cq-contest-
> > bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Stan Stockton
> > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 13:47
> > To: Randy Thompson; cq-contest at contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Skimmer in CQ WPX CW
> > 
> > 
> > Randy Thompson said:
> > 
> > >We can create hypothetical situations all day and try to
> > > >define what the ruling would or would not be.  The
> > > >contest sponsors can only work within the boundaries >of
> > >the published rules and the evidence they have as to >what
> > >happened during the contest period.
> > 
> > Randy, sorry this is not hypothetical.  It is reality.  Are
> > you saying that it is OK for someone to operate using my
> > "hypothetical" scenario?
> > 
> > With one click of the mouse a stream of callsigns can be fed
> > to you from another continent where you are running.  If a
> > blanket statement is made that Skimmer is allowed without
> > defining what mode it is allowed in, you are allowing a
> > remote receiver to be used in conjunction with a code reader
> > to feed a list of stations calling you and the reports that
> > are sent.
> > 
> > Assuming you don't want to allow what I will call the
> > "remote receiver function" of Skimmer, the question remains
> > would the stations using that remote Skimmer Setup via
> > internet, who do not have control over what the remote
> > Skimmer operator does with it, be automatically disqualified
> > if the remote Skimmer operator decided to make that one
> > mouse click, providing everyone who was using that network
> > with a stream of callsigns calling them on their run
> > frequency.
> > 
> > That is a pretty long sentence, but I think it comes down to
> > a simple YES or NO.
> > 
> > >With the coming of software defined radios that can >copy
> > >AND record an entire band for the whole >contest, we begin
> > >to have some serious tools for >analyzing what actually
> > >happened.
> > 
> > Randy, this sounds interesting, but has absolutely nothing
> > to do with the subject at hand.
> > 
> > >For now, I suggest everyone get on the air, enjoy the
> > > >contest, and then submit your log.  Contests exist to
> > > >provide a competitive challenge and fun.
> > >Better to enjoy the actual experience than to worry >about
> > >hypotheticals.
> > 
> > Randy, this is not an Operating Event like Field Day.  It is
> > a WRTC qualifying event and a major World Wide CW Contest.
> > 
> > It is reasonable for competitors to know what is allowed and
> > what is not allowed when they put in a full time effort to
> > win.  It is reasonable to ask for a clarification of the
> > rules and that is what I am doing.
> > 
> > 73...Stan, K5GO
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stan Stockton [mailto:k5go at cox.net]
> > > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 4:30 AM
> > > To: Randy Thompson; cq-contest at contesting.com
> > > Cc: 'Michael Höding'
> > > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Skimmer in CQ WPX CW
> > >
> > >
> > > >Thanks for sharing Michael.  Will be interesting to see
> > > >how it goes
> > > >during the contest.
> > >
> > > >Dear Contesters: Just to be clear, my original email said
> > > > >that a single op could use a skimmer WITHIN THEIR >OWN
> > > >STATION.  Using one connected via the Internet requires
> > > >entry in the
> > > >assisted or multi-op categories.
> > >
> > > Just curious Randy.  Someone in Europe has a CW Skimmer
> > > set
> > > up and a multi-operator or assisted entrant in the USA is
> > > using it.  The guy in Europe happens to click on the
> > > option
> > > that provides all callsigns instead of verified callsigns
> > > (ones that are calling CQ) or "happens"
> > > to tune the receiver to a particular frequency and click
> > > that
> > > option.  The USA entrant immediately sees a stream of
> > > European callsigns appear on his screen on his frequency
> > > calling him - same thing as a remote receiver in Europe
> > > only
> > > with a code reader involved..  Is this grounds for
> > > immediate
> > > and automatic disqualification or is there a grace period
> > > where it is OK for everyone to use a remote receiver while
> > > clearing the screen of callsigns that are calling?
> > >
> > > Is it OK if I am in the multi-multi category and someone
> > > (with or without my knowledge) decides to feed me a stream
> > > of
> > > callsigns calling on a run frequency from a
> > > Skimmer set up?   If someone is feeding a packet cluster
> > > and feeds in callsigns that are not calling CQ, are all
> > > the
> > > entrants who are logged into that cluster automatically
> > > disqualified?
> > >
> > > All I have seen is that it is OK to use a local Skimmer if
> > > you are Single Operator unassisted and a not-so-local
> > > Skimmer
> > > set up if you are in any other category.  If these and
> > > many
> > > other questions that are more esoteric than these have not
> > > been thought through and dealt with in the rules making,
> > > it
> > > would appear that we are just flying by the seat of our
> > > pants, using a major World Wide Contest to see what
> > > happens.
> > > God help us, if this is the case....
> > >
> > > 73...Stan, K5GO
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
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> > 
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