[CQ-Contest] Online Contesting

Wed Feb 16 07:46:21 PST 2011

Chronic is not sleeping well each night. If you are depressed and not
sleeping well it can be a good idea to force yourself to stay up as long as
you can stand it (extreme) then when you crash you sleep well and later you
feel better.
On Feb 16, 2011 9:27 AM, "Charles Fulp" <k3ww at fast.net> wrote:
> Weird..
> I think you are getting into serious motivational psychology.
> Interesting how it relates to real life and game playing.
>
> I like the team approach, it is more rewarding to me for FRC to win
> than for me to win individually, but still pretty nice to win some of
> the time. It seems to me that when the same few win all the time it is
> counterproductive to the endeavor.
>
> I will go over my how to win radio contests talk some time, but I think
> you are looking way broader at the world right now.
>
> Lots of stuff to do around here plus I am in my resting up for the
> weekend mode
>
> Did you say
> "Psychologists have discovered two things that relieve depression:
>
> 1) extreme sleep deprivation
> 2) goal oriented work that involves your hands and brain in the steady
> advancement toward the completion of something you can visualize."
>
> EXTREME Sleep deprivation relieves depression? is that in contrast to
> CHRONIC? and at what point do they overlap.
>
> I am typically chronically sleep deprived; however, I rest up well
> before contests, then become extremely sleep deprived during the contest.
>
> the 2nd thing makes all the sense in the world, both in my Radio and
> Dental work..
>
> more later... lights to take down this morning..the bushes are emerging
> from the ice.
>
> 73 Chas K3WW
>
>
>
>
> On 02/15/2011 10:49 PM, Brooke Allen wrote:
>> Randy,
>>
>> Thanks for your kind words.
>>
>> Do you play video games?
>>
>> I just got off the phone with Tom Fulp, K3WW's son who is a game
>> designer (he did Alien Hominid and Castle Crashers) and he founded
>> newgrounds.com <http://newgrounds.com>
>>
>> We were brainstorming various ideas - how many contests can we come up
>> with that are really different as the ones we have.
>>
>> Here is one:
>>
>> Who is Your God?
>>
>> You send your call and the call of the person you accept as your god.
>> You may change the person you accept as your god at any time during
>> the play as you hear who other people accept as their god. Your goal
>> is to end the contest accepting as your god the person who the most
>> people accept as their god at the end when we all pass on to the After
>> Contest (AC). This person is the One True God (OTG).
>>
>> All the people who accept the OTG as their god comprise the winning
>> team. Ranking within that team are based upon how many times each
>> follower has declared OTG as their own. If you aren't on the winning
>> team, you aren't even allowed a place in the Great 3830.
>>
>> Of course, since we are all mortals, we all know that we cannot
>> possibly be the OTG, so you can never declare yourself as god. If you
>> are voted the OTG, then your score must necessarily be zero, and you
>> most definitely lose.
>>
>> The evolution of the game itself might be interesting:
>>
>> Optional Rule: Accept the OTG at one point during the contest, but
>> change your mind before the AC when you can know for certain, and we
>> stone you to death (or put pins in your coax, or whatever).
>>
>> Variant 1: On Saturday we play to determine the top 5 contenders for
>> OTG. Sunday is Class of Civilizations Day when you can only declare
>> yourself as one of the top 5 OTG contenders, or an atheist. If this
>> variant proves to be unbearably stupid, then the contest must go on
>> until all participants publicly declare themselves to be the same thing.
>>
>> Variant 2: You can choose to register before the contest to be among
>> the Chosen People from whom the OTG will be chosen at random by the
>> Game Overall Director. Right before the contest begins, you will
>> receive 5 call letters chosen at random from among the CP, but with a
>> higher probability that the OTG is among them. (For example, if 1,000
>> people registered as CP, then there will be 5,000 guesses sent out. If
>> evenly distributed, each call would be mentioned only 5 times. But of
>> the 5,000 guesses, the Chosen One might be mentioned 500 times. So, if
>> everyone knew what everyone knew, it would be obvious who the Chosen
>> OTG is.
>>
>> Each time you contact someone you send your 5 best guesses as to the
>> OTG, which initially will be the 5 calls you are dealt. However you
>> can change your guess as you learn of other people's guesses. You may
>> repeat the same guess multiple times, and your last contact must have
>> all 5 guesses be the same as the OTG to be on the winning team.
>>
>> (This variant is actually what is done in simulation of something
>> called "information markets" where everyone has weak information which
>> would be strong if pooled with all other players so noise cancels. An
>> efficient market converges on the OTG quickly, but they are highly
>> subject to bubbles and crashes, and regional (propagation) differences
>> might lead to local clusters of differing guesses.)
>>
>>
>> You get the idea....
>>
>> What can you come up with? Don't worry about being PC at this point.
>>
>> Brooke
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:16 AM, Randy Thompson K5ZD <k5zd at charter.net
>> <mailto:k5zd at charter.net>> wrote:
>>
>> This has to be one of the best written posts to cq-contest I have
>> read in
>> 10+ years! Bravo. And good luck in TI.
>>
>> Flow is an amazing thing. I don't think you have it for all 48
>> hours. It
>> comes and goes. The guys who win know to keep chasing it until it
>> reappears, sometimes in an unexpected moment.
>>
>> Randy, K5ZD
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com
>> <mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com>
>> > [mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com
>> <mailto:cq-contest-bounces at contesting.com>] On Behalf Of Brooke Allen
>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 1:30 PM
>> > To: CQ-Contest at contesting.com <mailto:CQ-Contest at contesting.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Online Contesting
>> >
>> > This is a response to K7GO's private comments on my on-line
>> > contesting story (you might begin by reading his words at the
>> bottom).
>> >
>> > Lew,
>> >
>> > I agree with almost everything you are saying, which means I
>> > need to be clearer in stating my mission:
>> >
>> > I am *not *trying to convince young people that ham radio
>> > should compete for their attentions with MMORPGs. Others
>> > might wish that, but I agree with you
>> > - it is not a credible objective.
>> >
>> > What's more, it is ridiculous to draw parallels where they do
>> > not exist - radio contests are not ROLE PLAYING games, nor
>> > are there 3-D in the virtual sense - only the real one. But
>> > they are massively multi-player, and they on-line in every
>> > sense except the strictest modern interpretation of the term.
>> > (BTW, contesting is a MMOG, not MMORPG)
>> >
>> > My goal is to talk to my fellow contesters.
>> >
>> > Games that pitch players in battle are but a small corner of
>> > the on-line gaming world. One of the most successful games
>> > ever is FarmVille with more than 81 million active users, and
>> > 31 million daily users (year-old stats) No battles, no
>> > fights, just cooperation in what amounts to laborious tasks -
>> > plowing, managing crops, etc. As one friend called it, "poke
>> > with cows."
>> >
>> > The term "epic" means "*very *imposing or impressive," and
>> > "surpassing the ordinary." A Joan Baez concert may be
>> > entertaining, but Woodstock was epic.
>> > A soldier running 26 miles to deliver a message is an
>> > interesting historical footnote. 43,660 people finishing the
>> > New York Marathon is epic. Doing urban planning exercises in
>> > a 1980s version of SimCity might be entertaining, but 1.2% of
>> > the world's population tending to FarmVille crops that don't
>> > exist is epic. Working a new one is cool, CQWW is epic.
>> >
>> > The newbie experience is quite different from the elder
>> > player - this applies to newbie contesters and gamers alike.
>> > When my sons first showed me World of Warcraft, I thought it
>> > was about killing wolves and taking their loot - and
>> > eventually you might graduate to killing other players.
>> >
>> > Nothing was farther from the truth.
>> >
>> > The purpose of the battles was to improve your skills, and
>> > the loot was for buying armor and the like. Killing other
>> > players is cruel, and of interest to the 1% of players who
>> > roughly correspond to the sociopaths in the general
>> > population. As I watched my sons progress, they leveled up
>> > their characters to the point where they could participated
>> > in raiding parties that required the incredibly coordinated
>> > efforts of dozens of players, each with their own specialized
>> > skills, honed over hundreds and thousands of hours. Millions
>> > of people were doing this simultaneously - my sons knew they
>> > were immersed in something of epic proportions, and
>> > eventually I saw it too. (BTW, "elder"
>> > does not mean old.)
>> >
>> > Of Bartle's four gamer types (look it up), "killers" are the rarest.
>> > "Achievers: win with the cooperation of others (not at their
>> > expense), "socializers" relish that cooperation, and
>> > "explorers" love to discover new things - but don't need to
>> > win. Who among contesters is a "killer?" I daresay few; some
>> > of us (like me) are "achievers," most casual ops and members
>> > of contesting clubs and multi-op efforts are socializers, and
>> > those of us who advance the technology are explorers. And the
>> > battles between FRC, YCCC, and PVRC are as epic as they are
>> > friendly. Contesting is like WoW, not DOOM or its modern variants.
>> >
>> > Who among serious contesters hasn't had an adrenalin rush
>> > when bagging a new multiplier (or working just about anything
>> > a continent away on 160)? But adrenalin plays a small role
>> > in serious game play - it is mostly for hooking the newbie.
>> >
>> > Flow is the main thing - and yet most people don't even know
>> > what it is.
>> > When my wife watched my sons play WoW for 8 hours at a clip,
>> > she thought they were crazy, but I knew exactly what was
>> > going on, for I have sat down to play CQWW for 48 hours
>> > without sleep. According to Mihály Csíkszentmihályi, "flow
>> > is completely focused motivation. It is a single-minded
>> > immersion and represents perhaps the ultimate in harnessing
>> > the emotions in the service of performing and learning."
>> > (from wikipedia).
>> >
>> > Athletes call "flow" being "in the zone." Once you experience
>> > it, it can be the most addictive feeling around. It is the
>> > memory of hours of flow, and the anticipation of more to
>> > come, that has me working 100 feet in the air repairing my
>> > antennas, traveling to far-off lands, constantly leveling up
>> > my skills. It isn't about winning, it is about the hallmark
>> > of flow: "a feeling of spontaneous joy, even rapture, while
>> > performing a task." Flow only comes when a difficult
>> > challenge meets high skill in an all-consuming activity.
>> > When you are in flow, you can ignore everything else. A
>> > friend owes a 10-year-old record in CQWW to the fact he had
>> > an impacted tooth that was excruciatingly painful - but only
>> > when he stopped operating.
>> >
>> > 99% of the people who fill out my logs in the contest may
>> > think I'm crazy, but the 1% at the top of the leader boards
>> > know *exactly *what I'm talking about (although they might
>> > not have heard these words before). Think about it; something
>> > is motivating people to go to the extreme lengths they do,
>> > and believe me, it ain't about adrenalin or winning a piece
>> > of paper. Maybe DXing is about that, but contesting for the
>> > elder players is about flow.
>> >
>> > My mission is to inspire awe in our hobby - not among young
>> > gamers, but among you all. Learn how to express this, and you
>> > will be able to recruit new people. Don't do it, and you'll
>> > lose to the competition for their hearts and minds.
>> >
>> > I was driving to a science conference from New York to Boston
>> > with a colleague and his teenage son. When I told him there
>> > was an HF transciever in the car, he said he had Skype on his
>> > cell phone and we could call anywhere in the world, and we
>> > could talk to people we knew, not random strangers.
>> >
>> > He didn't understand. So I told him.
>> >
>> > "Using a little box of electronics, and about the same power
>> > as just one of the 11 light bulbs in my kitchen, we are going
>> > to send electrons up and down a piece of wire wrapped around
>> > 7 feet of fiberglass on the roof of our car.
>> > Invisible light would boil off this wire, and spread out all
>> > over the globe, bouncing off the upper atmosphere, the
>> > ground, the atmosphere, the ground, perhaps many times, and
>> > most of these photons would be absorbed or diluted as the
>> > spread out over the globe. Yet enough might land on another
>> > tiny piece of wire somewhere on the planet and induce
>> > electrons to move back an forth there too. Another person who
>> > shares my interest might stumble across those electrons and
>> > decide to reciprocate. And we will talk to each other."
>> >
>> > His jaw dropped.
>> >
>> > Our car trip wasn't long enough. My friend and his son could
>> > not believe their luck to experience such a miracle as we
>> > swapped photons with people in Italy, Russia, Brazil, and
>> > perhaps a dozen other countries.
>> >
>> > I have to go now to pack for my trip to TI5N to operate the
>> > ARRL DX contest.
>> > Like dozens of others, I will get in an aluminum tube, and
>> > travel 7 miles above the earth at five sevenths of the speed
>> > of sound to a land thousands of miles away to sit down at the
>> > home of just one of my million brothers and sisters to push
>> > electrons around his crop of aluminum. I will exchange beeps
>> > with thousands of you, but my goal is not to win a piece of
>> > paper that says "1st place, 15 meter single band" but to
>> > experience flow and the awe of it all. There is no way you
>> > can tell me this isn't going to be an epic experience for me.
>> > And if it isn't going to be one for you, all I can say is
>> > that I hope you level up some day.
>> >
>> > It wasn't until we began creating virtual worlds for a
>> > multi-billion dollar industry that we really began to study
>> > in earnest what makes for a compelling experience. The goal
>> > of my article is to discuss what we can learn from these
>> > designers of worlds so as to more fully appreciate our sport,
>> > and to improve upon it. For many, I also hope to rekindle the
>> > awe you experienced in your youth, and if you do that (and
>> > hang around with young people), you'll find that it rubs off.
>> >
>> > 73,
>> >
>> > Brooke N2BA (soon to be /TI)
>> >
>> > PS. Come on guys - start telling me your personal epic
>> > contesting experiences. I know you have them - cough 'em up.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Lew Paceley <lew at paceley.com
>> <mailto:lew at paceley.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi Brooke,
>> > > Personally I find your proposed article a bit of a stretch.
>> Online
>> > > MMORG 3D gaming is really nothing like ham radio. The
>> > backbone of all
>> > > good MMORGs is not an epic story line (which provides context but
>> > > little more) but rather Player versus Player combat.
>> > Essentially, the
>> > > "contest" runs 24x7 and your preparation and skills
>> > determine whether you "live" or "die"
>> > > (virtually). There's a strong element of adrenaline involved
>> in 3D
>> > > gaming that as a noobie contester I haven't found mirrored
>> > in any ham
>> > > radio activity. Yes, there are other activities that many games
>> > > support but these activities are typically centered around player
>> > > versus NPC (Non-Personel Characters, ie. computer driven
>> robots) or
>> > > activities designed to generate in-game money.
>> > >
>> > > Another unique characteristic of 3D gaming is that it is highly
>> > > interactive and very visual which again has no direct
>> equivalent in
>> > > ham radio. While I'm not sure I understand the goal of the
>> > article I
>> > > can tell you that trying to convince young people that ham
>> > radio has a
>> > > lot of the characteristics of a 3D video game is not a
>> > credible objective IMO.
>> > >
>> > > My $.02.
>> > >
>> > > 73,
>> > > *Lew*
>> > > K7GO
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:30 AM, Brooke Allen
>> > <brooke.t.allen at gmail.com <mailto:brooke.t.allen at gmail.com>>wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Interestingly, I just queried QST for an article I'm
>> > entitling "Ham
>> > >> Radio Contests - The Original MMOG" (MMOG=Massively
>> > Multi-Player Online Game).
>> > >> They are interested, and I hope to get this done in the next few
>> > >> months (work and contest commitments permitting).
>> > >>
>> > >> This article is still being formed, so I want your feedback.
>> > >>
>> > >> I will discuss many of the attributes of game design,
>> > evident in good
>> > >> contests:
>> > >>
>> > >> - Easy to play, hard to master.
>> > >> - Flow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29>
>> > >> - Leveling up: Visitor>Novice>Regular>Master>Elder Player
>> > >> - Badges and Leader boards (certificates, trophies, Top-10
>> > listings,
>> > >> etc.)
>> > >> - Collections (DXCC, WAS, etc.)
>> > >> - Aesthetics and emotional engagement: Surprise (JT1 calls
>> > over the
>> > >> pole), satisfaction, pride, gratitude (QSL cards), etc.
>> > >> - Community, administration, policing, and chat boards (like this
>> > >> one)
>> > >> - Social style: Playing alone with others (single op),
>> > >> - Bartles player types (Achievers, socializers, explorers,
>> > killers)
>> > >> http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm
>> > >>
>> > >> ---
>> > >>
>> > >> I will make suggestions for improvement that are informed
>> > by what the
>> > >> game design community has learned:
>> > >>
>> > >> Onboarding - the process of getting someone started (what if
>> there
>> > >> was a frequency on each band where volunteers help onboard casual
>> > >> operators who would otherwise find their operating weekend
>> > destroyed
>> > >> by a contest), tutorials, etc.
>> > >>
>> > >> The Engagement Loop - adding missions, quests, unlocks, in-game
>> > >> currency, custom leader boards, progress bars, etc.
>> > >>
>> > >> ---
>> > >>
>> > >> In her book *Reality is Broken*, Jane McGonigal makes the
>> > case that,
>> > >> compared to modern well-engineered games, the real world
>> > is not very
>> > >> engaging. She explains that we need to bring game
>> > mechanics to how we
>> > >> educate and motivate ourselves to learn and work. My
>> > favorite quote
>> > >> from the
>> > >> book: Noel Coward said, "Work is more fun than fun."
>> > >>
>> > >> The best games take players on an Epic Journey, and the best
>> MMOGs
>> > >> are of an Epic Scale.
>> > >>
>> > >> The difference between ham radio and on-line contests is that our
>> > >> game is played (for the most part) in the real world.
>> > >>
>> > >> Ham radio has played a central role in my personal Epic Journey:
>> > >>
>> > >> - By the time I'd graduated from high school, I'd talked
>> > to perhaps
>> > >> 30,000 people world-wide, and exchanged postcards with
>> > thousands of
>> > >> them, and was knowledgeable and curious about the world's people.
>> > >>
>> > >> - I knew of the invasion of Czechoslovakia hours before
>> > the news broke.
>> > >>
>> > >> - I have operated from about 30 countries (and I leave
>> > Wednesday to
>> > >> work ARRL CW from Costa Rica, a new one for me).
>> > >>
>> > >> - After Papa Doc died, I made 7 trips into Haiti bringing in
>> > >> transcievers, amps, and antennas to re-equip numerous
>> > hams, and I was
>> > >> part of the first contest operation from Haiti in 22 years.
>> > >>
>> > >> - While living in Japan, I relayed news of the Gorbachev Coup to
>> > >> Siberian hams.
>> > >>
>> > >> - During the Nicaraguan earthquake, I helped man a key
>> > station for a
>> > >> week providing relief communications.
>> > >>
>> > >> - Ham radio has even informed my career as a securities trader -
>> > >> digital low-pass filters help us make thousands of trading
>> > decisions
>> > >> a day, implemented through software that looks suspiciously
>> like a
>> > >> contest logging program, except that ticker symbols don't have
>> > >> numbers in them.
>> > >>
>> > >> - Even the expense of winning a contest has been a positive,
>> > >> motivating me to levels of career success I would not have
>> > otherwise achieved.
>> > >>
>> > >> ---
>> > >>
>> > >> Some times I feel that many of us fail to see our lives as a
>> Truly
>> > >> Epic Journey, don't see how *awesome *our hobby is, and do
>> > not take
>> > >> full advantage by allowing it to shape our lives (present
>> > company excluded).
>> > >>
>> > >> We can learn a lot from gamers. And we can teach a lot too.
>> > >>
>> > >> Would everyone please send me your ideas for my article,
>> > particular
>> > >> your own Epic Journey stories.
>> > >>
>> > >> 73,
>> > >>
>> > >> Brooke, N2BA
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 2:15 PM, David Gilbert
>> > >> <xdavid at cis-broadband.com <mailto:xdavid at cis-broadband.com>
>> > >> >wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> >
>> > >> > With all due respect, Steve, I suspect that you have
>> > never actually
>> > >> > played any modern online multiplayer games. It is a far richer
>> > >> > experience than any ham radio contest, and I can't imagine any
>> > >> > online gamer being persuaded to join us based upon some
>> > sort of legacy appeal.
>> > >> > It would be like expecting an audiophile to spend any
>> > serious time
>> > >> > (and serious dollars) to listen to old wire recordings.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > I really enjoy radiosport (in fact, it is probably the only
>> > >> > operating aspect of ham radio that still has significant
>> > appeal for
>> > >> > me), but I enjoy it because it has a history for me and
>> > it's a focused event ....
>> > >> > kind of like seeing how many free throws I can make in a
>> > row on the
>> > >> > basketball court.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Online multiplayer gaming, though, can be incredibly
>> > complex with
>> > >> > literally several dozens of different player types that
>> > each have
>> > >> > strengths and weaknesses versus one another that
>> > sometimes change
>> > >> > depending upon the environment. The permutations are
>> > truly staggering.
>> > >> > It often takes years for most gamers to get proficient at these
>> > >> > things, and it also takes lots of study ... there are several
>> > >> > online wiki's that describe aspects of any particular
>> > game in great
>> > >> > detail and also outline key player strategies. How do I
>> > know all
>> > >> > this? My wife and son are both avid gamers, and I can tell you
>> > >> > right now that anyone who claims today's youngsters are
>> > not drawn
>> > >> > to ham radio "because they aren't willing to work for it" is
>> > >> > ridiculously off base and simply kidding themselves.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Consider also the impressive audio and video implementations in
>> > >> > most online games, the ability for group voice
>> interactivity via
>> > >> > free applications like Ventrilo, the occasionally clever
>> > background
>> > >> > game scenarios, and minimal hardware/software cost. The
>> overall
>> > >> > comparison to competitive ham radio is not favorable in
>> > the least.
>> > >> > It is entirely possible to be eminently competitive in online
>> > >> > gaming with a $500 computer (which most people have anyway), a
>> > >> > decent internet connection (which most people have anyway), and
>> > >> > maybe $250 per year "operating cost" (online subscriptions,
>> game
>> > >> > upgrades, etc). That's cheaper than many folks pay for
>> > their cell
>> > >> > phone hardware and service, and it's a heck of a lot
>> > cheaper than
>> > >> > what I've invested to be a semi-competent contester.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Maybe someone can prove me wrong in a few isolated recruiting
>> > >> > instances, but I'm pretty sure it won't be very many.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > 73,
>> > >> > Dave AB7E
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On 2/11/2011 6:30 AM, Steve Sacco NN4X wrote:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Having said that, has anyone considered that we, as
>> radiosport
>> > >> > > enthusiasts, should be trolling for new blood in the
>> > electronic
>> > >> > > gaming world? I'm very serious! Consider that playing on a
>> > >> > > console in one thing, but can't we lay claim to being
>> > the "Original electronic
>> > >> > > gamers"? Surely there are some whose curiosity would
>> > be piqued!
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > 73,
>> > >> > > Steve
>> > >> > > NN4X
>> > >> > > EL98jh
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > CQ-Contest mailing list
>> > >> > CQ-Contest at contesting.com <mailto:CQ-Contest at contesting.com>
>> > >> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >>
>> > >> Brooke Allen
>> > >> ---
>> > >> www.BrookeAllen.net <http://www.BrookeAllen.net>
>> > >> www.NoShortageOfWork.com <http://www.NoShortageOfWork.com>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> > >> CQ-Contest at contesting.com <mailto:CQ-Contest at contesting.com>
>> > >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Brooke Allen
>> > ---
>> > www.BrookeAllen.net <http://www.BrookeAllen.net>
>> > www.NoShortageOfWork.com <http://www.NoShortageOfWork.com>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > CQ-Contest mailing list
>> > CQ-Contest at contesting.com <mailto:CQ-Contest at contesting.com>
>> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Brooke Allen
>> ---
>> www.BrookeAllen.net <http://www.BrookeAllen.net>
>> www.NoShortageOfWork.com <http://www.NoShortageOfWork.com>
>>