[CQ-Contest] R: Re: R: RE: My RED CARD - IT9GSF

Wed Apr 10 10:47:51 EDT 2013

  Fabio,

The only problem is that  we have only heard your side and I do not 
expect to hear the evidence that CQ has as their process is closed.  
Maybe they found other things and maybe they did not.  I applaud CQ for 
keeping this information private.  I suspect that in many cases what 
they find would be quite embarrassing to the ops if that information was 
released.

The public is not involved in this decision.  You decided to publicly 
air your grievance when your appeal should have been communicating 
privately with the committee.

The manipulation of logs is pretty serious in my book.  From your email 
it sounds like you made extensive changes and you also admitted that 
your lock outs were not working.  If you broke the rules for MS by 
hardware failure you cannot go into the logs and "fix" things.  You and 
your friends were no longer in the MS class and you should have simply 
classified the log properly.  In my book, and I think most would agree 
that log manipulation if a flagrant foul and a red card is warranted.

The only reason your logs were not uploaded immediately after the 
contest is that you knew there were problems and you knew you had to fix 
things to attempt to make the logs fit into the MS class. This is just 
wrong my friend.

CQ did not cause this issue.  You did with log manipulation and the ops 
did with malfunctioning hardware lockouts as you claim.

Mike W0MU

On 4/10/2013 3:13 AM, fabio.grisafi at libero.it wrote:
> Hi Guys!
>
> I was not asking to be not punished with a penalty or disqualification.
>
> I asked why there were different conditions for different cases and, if there
> is an analogy
> with soccer/football - as they sayd there is - I asked to reduce the penalty
> to a Yellow Card
> because the faul was not made in the penalty area or it was not so seriuos.
>
> Also, I have asked the CQWW CC to vote again, so obtaining an objective
> result.
>
> Also, knowing that there were many cases the decidion (red card) was removed -
> well
> after the "final decision of the CC",I asked if it wasn't right to ask for a
> new decision taken
> with all the informations that before they hadn't.
>
> I would accept this decision and the informations given to all amateurs, here
> in CQ-Contest,
> about the difference between RED and YELLOW Card.
>
> Also, I asked if the CQWW CC and WRTC Directors knew about bad policy made
> here in EU
> by some of the components of the CC.
>
> So, I ASKED. I didn't say I am right!
>
> Now, I have received these very nice messages only. It is nice to see that
> there is an easy way
> to archive a debate. You can always say that  the questioner is crazy.
>
> It was done in tribunals, you think it is not possible here in the ham radio
> community?
>
> The first man that declared the existence of mafia in Sicily was sent to the
> psichiatric jail
> (not the psichiatric hospital, but the psichiatric JAIL!)... I don't want to
> go there!
> His name was Leonardo Vitale and you can find his story in the internet....
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_Vitale
>
> So, thank you very much for the verdict, dear Dave, I will come to Arizona to
> meet you and all
> the "outlaw" friends. You will pay a dinner for me ... or call the sheriff and
> say there is a crazy boy
> out of your door!
>
> 73 de Fabio, IT9GSF.
>
> -----------------------
>
>> ----Messaggio originale----
>> Da: w0mu at w0mu.com
>> Data: 10/04/2013 3.23
>> A: <cq-contest at contesting.com>
>> Ogg: Re: [CQ-Contest] R: RE:  My RED CARD - IT9GSF
>>
>> This same thing happens in online gaming.  Cheaters are found and banned
>> and then post to forums trying to get sympathy for the cause and like
>> what we saw here nearly everyone sides against the banned player.
>>
>> Is it the people or they way we teach and what we are told over and over
>> that there is always someone else or something else to blame.
>>
>> Most people would easily be forgiven or given a second chance , if they
>> just took the high road and said yep I blew it, what I did was wrong and
>> I hope that I have learned my lesson and will strive to follow the rules
>> in the future.  Instead we get laundry lists of EXCUSES why rules had to
>> be broken.
>>
>> It is a sad commentary on society.
>>
>> Mike W0MU
>>
>> On 4/9/2013 1:28 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
>>> I've sometimes posted here before on the topic of cheating and the
>>> various reasons/mentalities behind it.  There are several of them and
>>> most have different roots, but one thing that is common to all of them
>>> is the amazing ability of humans to rationalize bad behavior.  It's
>>> almost like people lose objectivity once they've decided to break a
>>> rule.  I've even read things that suggest it's a natural human defense
>>> mechanism for coping with the ambiguous situations we regularly find
>>> ourselves in.  I suspect that those who don't have some capability to
>>> rationalize eventually go mad ... or at least get diagnosed as being
>>> obsessive-compulsive.
>>>
>>> Fabio's post is a pretty good case in point (in fact, his
>>> rationalizations bother me greatly) but it most certainly is not a
>>> unique example.  Anyone who thinks they are immune to this in their
>>> life is kidding themselves ... it's all just a matter of place and
>>> degree.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Dave   AB7E
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/9/2013 12:11 AM, Braco OE1EMS wrote:
>>>> Fabio,
>>>>
>>>> there is no reason to be angry and Brian have 100% right
>>>>
>>>> If you violated rules by mistake even deliberately you had choice to
>>>> avoid
>>>> problems you get into
>>>> sending your log into other category, sending your log as check log
>>>> or ask
>>>> contest organizer what to do?
>>>>
>>>> But what did you do? You change your log to fit into MS even you know
>>>> this
>>>> is wrong!
>>>> Now after log checker discovered rule violation you talking about
>>>> wrong log
>>>> file :)
>>>> Hard to believe.....
>>>> I am pretty sure if no one look at your log and you were in results,
>>>> you were not complaining about it, even you know it was wrong!
>>>>
>>>> So far I can see you just wanted to avoid RED CARD because of WRTC
>>>> participation  and after no success
>>>> with contest organizer now you are bothering WRTC director with it!
>>>>
>>>> It was your decision and you could act different, now be man took the
>>>> consequences !!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 73s
>>>> Braco
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> _______________________________________________
>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>
>> ----Messaggio originale----
>> Da: xdavid at cis-broadband.com
>> Data: 09/04/2013 21.28
>> A: <cq-contest at contesting.com>
>> Ogg: Re: [CQ-Contest] R: RE:  My RED CARD - IT9GSF
>>
>>
>> I've sometimes posted here before on the topic of cheating and the
>> various reasons/mentalities behind it.  There are several of them and
>> most have different roots, but one thing that is common to all of them
>> is the amazing ability of humans to rationalize bad behavior.  It's
>> almost like people lose objectivity once they've decided to break a
>> rule.  I've even read things that suggest it's a natural human defense
>> mechanism for coping with the ambiguous situations we regularly find
>> ourselves in.  I suspect that those who don't have some capability to
>> rationalize eventually go mad ... or at least get diagnosed as being
>> obsessive-compulsive.
>>
>> Fabio's post is a pretty good case in point (in fact, his
>> rationalizations bother me greatly) but it most certainly is not a
>> unique example.  Anyone who thinks they are immune to this in their life
>> is kidding themselves ... it's all just a matter of place and degree.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave   AB7E
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/9/2013 12:11 AM, Braco OE1EMS wrote:
>>> Fabio,
>>>
>>> there is no reason to be angry and Brian have 100% right
>>>
>>> If you violated rules by mistake even deliberately you had choice to avoid
>>> problems you get into
>>> sending your log into other category, sending your log as check log or ask
>>> contest organizer what to do?
>>>
>>> But what did you do? You change your log to fit into MS even you know this
>>> is wrong!
>>> Now after log checker discovered rule violation you talking about wrong log
>>> file :)
>>> Hard to believe.....
>>> I am pretty sure if no one look at your log and you were in results,
>>> you were not complaining about it, even you know it was wrong!
>>>
>>> So far I can see you just wanted to avoid RED CARD because of WRTC
>>> participation  and after no success
>>> with contest organizer now you are bothering WRTC director with it!
>>>
>>> It was your decision and you could act different, now be man took the
>>> consequences !!
>>>
>>>
>>> 73s
>>> Braco
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>