[CQ-Contest] Remote contest operation

Thu Apr 11 13:53:29 EDT 2013

I wonder if good old POTS and modems are unjustly ignored as a viable option for carrying the control channel and audio; computer screen sharing can still go over the net. POTS have the benefit of predictable performance and possibly lower latency. The control channel to/from the remote station (perhaps under 20 kbps) + the audio (around 4 kbps) can easily fit in what a modem point to point network can offer.

Long distance charges are no longer an issue either with many households having unlimited domestic/Canada calling plans.

Thoughts?

Rudy N2WQ

________________________________
 From: Gerry Hull <gerry at yccc.org>
To: Jim Jordan <k4qpl at nc.rr.com> 
Cc: Barry <w2up at comcast.net>; cq-contest at contesting.com 
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Remote contest operation

GoToMyPC is great, but not required.

If you use a free VPN, you get all those features, with less latency.

Once you have a connection, you can use any program you want -- all the
ones you've listed will work just fine.

In a PM with Barry, he explained to me that he saw a lot of jitter on the
connection... sometimes >100mS.   This is going to play havoc with realtime
audio over UDP, and, depending on how sent CW is being generated, can
really be a mess.

I've seen Remoterig run flawlessly over a Verizon 4G LTE connection.   Most
modern internet providers can provide plenty of bandwidth.  The problems
are related to having a continuous stream with low latency and very little
jitter.   Latency is a pain, because you will be delays, but jitter (large
changes in latency over a short period of time) will cause all kinds of
problems.

Some think that it's Comcast shaping traffic.   I don't think so.   In
Barry's case, one end of the circuit is a point-to-point microwave hop.
Well, my ISP at home  is point-to-point microwave (I have two connections,
one on 900 MHz and another at 2.4 GHz).   I have seen lots of jitter and
latency issues on my connections when the network was not properly
configured or overloaded.  It took a bunch of work to get my provider to
fix things.  I use VoIP for telephony, and had a bunch of issues with that.
  Besides, I use lots of non-Comcast VoIP over our Comcast connection at
work (New England) and it works flawlessly.

If you think you are having traffic shaping issues, I have a public
NeoRouter VPN server that I'm happy to let any hams use.   Send me an email
and I'll give you a login.  You can download a free client from
www.neorouter.com.  Once you do that, you'll get a private IP address in
the 192.168.25.x address range; you can even use DNS to connect to systems
on the other end, using the computer's name..

73, Gerry W1VE

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 9:26 PM, Jim Jordan <k4qpl at nc.rr.com> wrote:

> Hi Barry,
>
> I also operate remote with a TS480. However, I opted not to use Remoterig
> for concern about the very issues you are experiencing. I leave my entire
> radio at home and use what I consider (no I'm not paid!) to be the most
> bullet proof remote desktop, www.GoToMyPC.com  which I also use in my
> business for its reliability. Not free, but worth it IMHO. By using remote
> desktop I can control other things including N1MM Logger, HamSwitch (for
> antenna switching and other peripherals). I'm not using Winkey so I can't
> use a paddle right now and not even sure if I want it. I use keyboard
> sending with the free software CWType loaded on the shack computer or
> keyboard sending with N1MM. Not a big deal for most contests since I use
> N1MM on my shack computer which is doing 98% of the work and all keying is
> local.  That eliminates almost any possibility of defective keying
> originating with the contest program as the only thing that is carried by
> the remote desktop program are your keystrokes including a specific "F" key
> or "Enter" if you use ESM. To carry the audio I use Skype with the
> microphone muted at the remote end and the Skype AGC turned off at both
> ends. That pretty much eliminates latency. Ocassionally there will be a bad
> Skype connection. Hang up and call again. I did the CQ 160 remote and also
> Sprint RTTY. Check into some cw nets and a few casual QSO's when I'm
> travelling.
>
> There will always be a few occasions where you experience temporary drop
> out no matter what system you have but it shouldn't seriously affect your
> operations. That's the price of remote in a less than perfect cyberworld. I
> did upgrade my Time Warner connection to 10Mb/S. Checking it on Speedtest
> shows it delivers as promised. You can also reduce the risk by using a
> 100Mb CAT5 connection to your router if available instead of wireless from
> your laptop. Oh, yes, if your internet connection is less than perfect, be
> sure your XYL isn't streaming a movie from NetFlix!!
>
> With this setup I need absolutely nothing on the road but my laptop and
> some cheap headphones to keep from bothering other people. I'm leaving on
> an overseas trip tomorrow, again taking nothing but my laptop, and I'll see
> what happens.
>
> Good luck and 73,
>
> Jim, K4QPL
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry" <w2up at comcast.net>
> To: <cq-contest at contesting.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 7:42 PM
> Subject: [CQ-Contest] Remote contest operation
>
>
>
>  I tried some remote operation in the 10m contest using a TS480 and
>> Remoterig.  The radio control worked fine, but we had lots of problems with
>> dropped dits, timing problems, etc. on CW, presumably due to dropped
>> packets and/or latency issues.  I don't know if it's my particular network
>> or a common problem, but I've heard others using Comcast as an ISP having
>> similar issues.
>>
>> I wonder if anyone has had success using some other remote system for CW
>> contesting.
>>
>> Tnx,
>> Barry W2UP
>>
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>>
>
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