[CQ-Contest] NILs hurt

KB3LIX at comcast.net KB3LIX at comcast.net
Wed Sep 4 15:47:06 EDT 2013 

I have lots of points I want to make, and I will
probably miss some, but here goes.

My purpose is NOT to teach anyone a "LESSON"
That notion is foolish to me.

My intent is to make sure I am NOT penalized in the log checking
process for having excessive NIL's.
This is especially important to me when I am participating
in a contest where I am not only penalized for a single NIL,
but am also penalized additional points as punishment
for having an NIL.

In ALL cases, I try to get the attention of the running station
and get an ack. MOST times I am drowned out by other callers.
That is potentially MY fault because I do not have a kW+ amplifier
and a junk yard full of aluminum in the air. 
Living on a fixed income precludes those options.

A scenario I also live with is the situation where I send my info
and I believe he does not get it because I am drowned out by others. 
I DETEST the practice in contests and general DXing where a station
replies to a caller, or sends a partial call like "Who is the KB3"
and the world keeps calling instead of SHUTTING UP and let
him complete the Q.

While I am at it, I'll tell you another thing I will not do:
There may be a running station that is totally distorted, splattering
all over the place because he has the "all knobs to the right syndrome"
Those guys, I IGNORE and keep on spinning the VFO. There are LOTS of those
types out there. Too bad people do not pay proper attention to their
station setup. It just shows their ignorance.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jukka Klemola" <jpklemola at gmail.com>
To: ve4xt at mymts.net, "cq-contest" <cq-contest at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 11:45:27 AM
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] NILs hurt

Kelly et al,
If I am not drastically mistaken, the original KB3LIX scenario was in case
the running station does not acknowledge in the way the S&P pleases, the
S&P simply removes the QSO from his log and tunes on.
Leaving the -NIL victim unaware of his state. S&P calmly keeps on rolling
the VFO.

You refer to a scenario where the S&P station asks for a repeat, repeats or
otherwise fixes the QSO before leaving the frequency. The whole case
changes. Of course.

My addition would be, if needed, make another contact with the running
station without moving on.


But as HB wrote, teaching the running station a lesson like this, simply is
something also I would discourage people from doing. There would be no
lesson delivered. Nothing learned.

To me, that would not increase the Fun.


73,
Jukka OH6LI



2013/9/4 <ve4xt at mymts.net>

> But you don't mind the harm he's doing to you by ignoring your pleas to
> fix?
>
> If you've made an honest, good-faith effort to complete the Q, you can
> leave the frequency with your conscience clear.
>
> And if he has it wrong and won't listen to your fix, he doesn't deserve
> the Q anyway.
>
> Kelly
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 4, 2013, at 9:35, "Jukka Klemola" <jpklemola at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Trying to get thru the pile again, twice or even three times should
> > generate more score than leaving the frequency and giving the potential
> > innocent victim a -NIL with the penalty.
> >
> > That is, at least I could not just coldly leave him there with a clear
> and
> > honest mind.
> > I would be troubled doing that kind of harm to a fellow contester.
> >
> > Take that 45 seconds and if no response, then feel better.
> > Be honest trying.
> >
> > Giving anyone 'a lesson' of that sort is simply unacceptable.
> >
> >
> > 73,
> > Jukka OH6LI
> >
> >
> >
> > 2013/9/4 <ve4xt at mymts.net>
> >
> >> Jukka
> >>
> >> Yes, however, that's often easier said than done.
> >>
> >> Many, many times I've worked a running station and have had to correct
> >> him/her on a piece of the exchange, he's so busy in the pileup he either
> >> doesn't hear you or doesn't consider a fix important enough.
> >>
> >> Nobody should be expected to continue sacrificing other QSOs to keep
> >> banging head against wall for too much time, and that amount of time is
> >> roughly the same as what the 'mult worth' calculator of some loggers
> would
> >> show, IMHO.
> >>
> >> If you can fix the Q, do it. If you can't, all you can do is move on. If
> >> his error is big enough, you'll lose the Q anyway, so no real loss.
> >>
> >> Kelly
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Sep 4, 2013, at 7:29, "Jukka Klemola" <jpklemola at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> How come so many suggest stopping there, removing the QSO and then
> tuning
> >>> for the next frequency?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I was expecting someone or anyone suggesting calling again the station
> >> that
> >>> is on thr frequency and is not in your log.
> >>> Why go and try to find a next frequency as you already are on a
> frequency
> >>> of a station that you do not have in your log?
> >>>
> >>> Finalise the QSO ..
> >>>
> >>> That will yield you more QSOs at the end of the contest.
> >>> It also produces a bigger score.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 73,
> >>> Jukka OH6LI
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2013/9/4 <ve4xt at mymts.net>
> >>>
> >>>> Surely, if there's been a good-faith effort to get the Q, leave it in
> >> the
> >>>> log.
> >>>>
> >>>> But if you know the Q is not complete, and your best efforts to
> complete
> >>>> it fail, by getting a fill or correcting his error, then there is no Q
> >> to
> >>>> remove. It didn't exist.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sep 3, 2013, at 20:48, john at kk9a.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I think it is a very poor practice to receive a report, send your
> >> report
> >>>> and
> >>>>> then removed the station from your log unless you have a good reason
> to
> >>>>> believe that the station did not log you.  There should be something
> in
> >>>> the
> >>>>> rules prohibiting this practice.  Most stations will ask you to
> repeat
> >>>> the
> >>>>> report and work hard to copy it correctly before moving on to the
> next
> >>>>> station.  If the station just sends his callsign, QRZ,  dit dit, etc,
> >>>> that
> >>>>> may be his way of acknowledging the contact and moving on to the next
> >>>>> caller.  Listen to the operator's operating style before calling.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John KK9A / P40A
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: <KB3LIX at comcast.net>
> >>>>> To: <john at kk9a.com>; "Contest, CQ" <CQ-Contest at contesting.com>
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 19:59
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] NILs hurt
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I consider an acknowledgement to be a:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> TU
> >>>>> OK
> >>>>> GL
> >>>>> Got it
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Something along those lines. CERTAINLY nothing fancy,
> >>>>> just a reply that they got the exchange. Frankly, I do NOT want
> >>>>> them to repeat MY exchange, that wastes too much time, mine and
> theirs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Many times I will try to ask IF they got the exchange, and most if
> not
> >>>>> all times they just keep slugging away.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Understand, I am not a biggie.
> >>>>> 100w, a 4BTV & a homemade 130' doublet, so I do not
> >>>>> have a "big mouth" and when I ask for a confirmation, I am often
> >>>>> drowned out by the cacophony of other callers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have lost quite a few multipliers due to my impatience or
> >>>>> stubbornness or whatever it is and that HURTS, but I cannot in good
> >>>>> consience
> >>>>> count Q's that I do not consider complete.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> bill   73   KB3LIX
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: john at kk9a.com
> >>>>> To: cq-contest at contesting.com
> >>>>> Cc: KB3LIX at comcast.net
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2013 12:04:36 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] NILs hurt
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What do you consider an acknowledgement?  Many stations, including
> >>>> myself,
> >>>>> running at a high rate, just give a quick TU, thanks or just say
> their
> >>>>> callsign looking for the next contact. I never repeat your exchange.
> >> If I
> >>>>> did not copy it I would ask for a repeat.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John P40A
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To:"Contest, CQ" <CQ-Contest at contesting.com>
> >>>>> Subject:[CQ-Contest] Fwd: NILs hurt
> >>>>> From:KB3LIX at comcast.net
> >>>>> Date:Sun, 1 Sep 2013 03:53:16 +0000 (UTC)
> >>>>> List-post:<cq-contest at contesting.com">mailto:
> cq-contest at contesting.com
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If I do not get a solid acknowledgement from another station in a
> >>>> contest,
> >>>>> I DELETE the ENTRY in my logging program.
> >>>>> Of course, I am NOT a big time contester, just a small fish,
> >>>>> but I figure if they are in too much of a rush to skip the
> >> confirmation,
> >>>>> they DESERVE the NIL...Not me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am sure most will say I am FOS, but too bad.
> >>>>> That is my way of doing things.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> bill   KB3LIX
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> >>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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