[CQ-Contest] Move to disband MAR section in Canada (for contesting)

[Gerry Hull]

Mike,

I think Dave's point is that you change the system by being part of it.
Just saying that RAC doesn't respond is a cop out.  If you don't like how
things are going, join, interact, or offer your services as a Contest
Advisory Committee member.

You are looking at this issue from a contenting point of view.  ARRL SS has
a rich history. That history is bound to the politics of ARRL and RAC.
This ship CAN be changed, but it will certainly take work.  The reasons for
making separate sections for the maritime provinces will not center on
contesting, but of course contesting will benefit.  If they do not become
sections, I think the road to getting separate multipliers will be a hard
one.

Any member organization will eventually fail if it does not reflect the
needs and wants of it's members; it can't know what those needs and wants
are if you are not participating.

The 100 years of tradition in ARRL and CRRL/RAC brings along with it
process to make change.  It you work within these processes you'll have a
much better chance of success.

The Contest Advisory Committee member for RAC is Sam, VE6SF.  He's the best
place to start with this.

Here's hoping we get to a happy medium with Maritime Provincial Multipliers!

73 es cu in SS,

Gerry Hull, W1VE / VE1RM





On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA <
ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:

> My apologies Dave.  I made the assumption they were "ARRL sponsored"...I
> knew you published them, so jumped to conclusios and was mistaken.  Sorry
> about that.  I certainly know when to say I am wrong.
>
> As I said, I certainly have been a RAC member off and on since 1978.
> Currently I am not. (also rec'd QST for many yrs, but not currently)
>
> Lack of response of any kind from RAC kind of suggests that I won't be
> renewing any time soon and goes to prove my point.
>
> I would be glad in this case to be embarrassed and proven wrong however.
>
> What would it take to even initiate some kind of conversation with RAC?
>
> Thanks Dave.
>
> Mike VE9AA
>
> Mike, Coreen & Corey
> Keswick Ridge, NB
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sumner, Dave, K1ZZ [mailto:dsumner at arrl.org]
> Sent: October 30, 2014 6:59 PM
> To: Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA; w1ve at yccc.org; ghbawden at gmail.com; Craigie,
> Kay, N3KN; Marcel LeBlanc; morgakl at nb.sympatico.ca; 'Bill Glydon'
> Cc: 'CQ-Contest'; ve5sf at rac.ca; alan; 'Scott Nichols'
> Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] Move to disband MAR section in Canada (for
> contesting)
>
> Mike, the NCJ contests are not sponsored by the ARRL. The ARRL took on the
> role of NCJ publisher some years ago but the ARRL plays no role in managing
> the NCJ-sponsored contests.
>
> If you want to have influence in the RAC, first be a member. The
> organization deserves your support and that of every Canadian amateur.
>
> 73,
> Dave Sumner, K1ZZ
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA [ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca]
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 5:43 PM
> To: w1ve at yccc.org; ghbawden at gmail.com; Craigie, Kay, N3KN; Sumner, Dave,
> K1ZZ; Marcel LeBlanc; morgakl at nb.sympatico.ca; 'Bill Glydon'
> Cc: 'CQ-Contest'; ve5sf at rac.ca; alan; 'Scott Nichols'
> Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] Move to disband MAR section in Canada (for
> contesting)
>
> The ARRL sponsored NCJ sprints require MAR, whereas the ARRL NCJ NA QSO
> parties allow Provinces.
> Some ARRL contests require MAR, whereas some require NB, NS & PEI.  There
> seems to be little in the way of consistency.
> Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of worldwide contests, including 90%
> of state run QSO parties  allow "NB, NS or PEI."
> (The California QSO party being the holdout)...folks are usually tickled
> when they work VE9 for a new mult.
>
> The continuous staunch retort from (my good friends at) the ARRL seems to
> say "We follow RAC sections", and apparently that's that-end of discussion.
> . .however if you look down the list of ARRL contests very carefully,
> you'll
> see only a percentage of them do. (50%?) I don't know - I would have to
> count them. Does it matter if I said 40% or 65% really?
>
> Even the hugely popular RAC contests here at home say "send your
> province"..I have sent "NB" in every Canada Day or Canada Winter contest
> that I have entered since "RAC" was the CARF.   I live in NB not a
> fictitious "Maritime Province".
>
> By saying "we follow RAC"..no, you really don't.  You only follow RAC
> sections for *S-O-M-E* of the ARRL sponsored contests. ( I reckon not even
> most of them)
>
> I still also stand by the fact that no other States or Provinces are lumped
> together with other States or Provinces to create a section.  (DC is the
> exception, but it is not a State )  I have new information given to me
> today
> that once upon a time Georgia, SC and Cuba (of all places) was a section,
> but that must surely been before I was born, or at least the Bay of Pigs
> affair.
>
> Hey, I don't expect anyone to jump right up and change things overnight,
> but
> look,  I've been a VE9 for 21 years (and a ham much longer than that).  I
> am
> not CURRENTLY a RAC member, but have been in the past.  I was even a
> volunteer for the RAC VHF frequency committee for VE3DS  and certainly do
> my
> part to represent VE9 (NB) in the RAC contests out of an unwritten devotion
> to RAC even though admittedly they are not my favorite contests.
>
> Usually I feel my voice is never heard and over time I will let my RAC
> membership lapse.
>
> All I am saying is that (for whatever reason) we have multiple sections in
> Ontario and every other Province has their own section.  Isn't it time for
> the ARRL to get onboard with 95% of other worldwide contests and recognize
> that it's time to recognize that ALL contests under the ARRL banner should
> treat us equally out here?
>
> It sure would be nice to hear from Geoff Bowden on this issue.  I have RAC
> folks (VE9MY and VY2LI) who've heard our concerns. We have RAC
> representation in every province including NB, NS and PEI (and
> Newfoundland/Labrador). I am not entirely certain where they stand, but if
> it takes someone from RAC to initiate a change or someone from the ARRL
> like
> N3KN or K1ZZ to pick up the phone and call Manitoba and speak with VE4BAW,
> to see what needs to be done I'd gladly pay the long distance charges.  I
> see people at ARRL and RAC nodding, but nobody is even CONSIDERING our
> request and nobody is even talking.
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Mike VE9AA "NB"
>
> Mike, Coreen & Corey
> Keswick Ridge, NB
>
> From: Gerry Hull [mailto:gerry at yccc.org]
> Sent: October 30, 2014 4:31 PM
> To: Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA
> Cc: CQ-Contest; ve5sf at rac.ca
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Move to disband MAR section in Canada (for
> contesting)
>
> As a ex-pat Maritimer, I'd agree, from a contest perspective, it would be
> wonderful to have the individual provinces as multipliers.
> I'd hazard to guess, though, that the decision that drove Ontario to have
> separate sections was not driven by contesting, but by the size of the
> amateur population and administrative needs.
>
> I'd say that boycotting contests that use MAR as the multiplier will hurt
> your cause -- IF those in power were to consider contest activity one of
> the
> factors in breaking up MAR into provinces, boycotting current contests
> would
> definitely hurt!
>
> So, count me in support of the effort, but let me counsel you to
> PARTICIPATE
> in ARRL contests!
>
> Here's hoping I work a bunch of MARs in SS CW -- I'll be VE1RM/3 or CG1RM/3
> from ONE. (Ottawa is a closer drive than even St. John!)
>
> 73, Gerry W1VE
> Also: VE1RM, VY2CDX, VE9XDX, VO1WIN
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA
> <ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca<mailto:ve9aa at nbnet.nb.ca>> wrote:
> The following is from Al, VA1MM but I 100% support him.  See my own (VE9AA)
> comments below his:
>
>
>
> VA1MM:
>
>
>
> A group of us contesters here in the "MAR" section feel the time has come
> to
> announce the end of the MAR section in not only ARRL contests but all
> contests. When our Department of Communications (now Industry Canada)
> granted us separate prefixes for New Brunswick (VE9), Nova Scotia (VE1) and
> Prince Edward Island (VY2), they recognized they we were distinct Provinces
> with enough Amateur Radio operators to support a distinct call sign. And as
> multipliers go, why wouldn't you want to have three new districts to work
> when multiplied by six bands you have a substantial increase in your
> scores.
>
>
>
> We have tried to weigh the pros and cons, the only con would be the contest
> software not keeping up with the change or the operator not downloading the
> newest version, but do we wait forever? Ontario (VE3) lead the way with
> their divisional split, now it's time for the Maritimes to be recognized as
> NS, NB and PEI
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank-you, Al VA1MM/ VE1AWP (NS) Maritime Contest Club Member
>
> -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
>
> VE9AA, Mike says:
>
>
>
> I've been moaning and groaning about this very thing for years and years.
> SOME ARRL contests force us to send MAR (a very antiquated section) and
> some
> permit us to send NB, NS and PEI (the provinces where we are)
>
> Meanwhile, places like Ontario recently get 4 (count them) FOUR sections?
> What the???  Do we not exist out here or what????
>
> What if we were to combine RI, DE and ME?  Who in W1 would go for that
> section>? \RIDEME\
>
>
>
> Prior to 1993, all NB, NS and PEI's were VE1's...*BUT*, News Flash> In 1993
> us "VE1's" all got NEW distinct callsign prefixes
>
> ie: NB=VE9, NS=VE1 and PEI=VY2...there are very few left that kept their
> original VE1 calls in NB or PEI. (the NS guys got to keep their VE1's)...
>
> We are distinct provinces, (have been for eons.) just as Maine, Rhode
> Island
> and Delaware are.  Maybe it made sense in the old days or whatever to have
> us as one section as there are fewer hams here (and we were all VE1's) ,
> but
> I think you'll see as a fellow member of MCC also, that we are well
> represented these days. As a point of interest, there are so many VE1's
> that
> they also have a VA1 prefix to choose from.  If it's based on activity (I
> know it's not) there are certainly ARRL and RAC sections with less activity
> than NB, NS and PEI.
>
> Even in the RAC contests we send "NB,NS and PE" so saying you "follow RAC"
> does not hold water, nor does it even make sense 2+ decades later.
>
>
>
> I normally try to boycott most contests that force us to send "MAR" as a
> silent protest.  Probably nobody notices but there are others like me out
> here.
>
>
>
> Get with the times ARRL, CQP and a very select few others.
>
>
>
> I don't know who's attention we need to get, but help us out. Rattle some
> chains.  Send emails to those you know,
>
> "RAC" is not contest oriented.  Why we have to follow that structure (but
> only for some contests) is beyond me !?!?
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
>
>
> Mike VE9AA (proudly in NB)
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike, Coreen & Corey
>
> Keswick Ridge, NB
>
>
>
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