[CQ-Contest] Re. TO7A Debacle

Sat May 16 02:20:15 EDT 2015

Brian,

Have no doubts that I see this violation as very serious, and very
intentional.

I also agree that the possibility to "return to other CQ events" already in
2015 seems non logical. Atletes who use steroids will have a much longer
"moratorium" for new entries. This shold also apply to our sport. Repeated
violations whould also be considered much more serious. If CQWW CC had
known what we know today about TO7A's multiple cheating, then perhaps the
letter would have been formulated in a more strong way.

What my message was all about, is that ONE person is now THE cheater, and
lots of others are protected by our well motivated anger towards what he
has done. I have no naive belief that TO7A and all the other DQd in CQWW
represent the only cheating that took place in 2014. This is unfortunately
just the tip of the ice berg.

I am convinced lot of others in that WW list also have used excessive power
and log padding, faked contacts, used rubber watches and maybe even remote
receivers in other continents to facilitate better reception. Even more
sad, is that hundreds of others have been doing the same thing without
being caught. That is however our sad reality. We can not catch everyone
cheating, we have to focus on the big fish.

Nevertheless, we need to have an open soul to forgive if someone who has
TRULY serious intentions to correct his or her behaviour.

I know a few guys that I have discussed power cheating with, who actually
have changed behaviour and stopped using their huge amps in contests at
least. That is typical things that we should strive for, and such changes
of a person only happens if he feels that he despite all is part of our
contest community. To eternally exclude people who have failed to live up
to our expectations is also doomed.

What we need to do - especillay in countries where flexibility with truth
is bigger is to dare to question a system that has become an accepted
pattern. This we can do in many ways.

If UT5UGR has guts enough to face the strong chilly wind that will blow
towards him in case he openly admits that he did very wrong, then at least
I am ready to consider forgiving. I say consider, because it all depends on
how I perceive his serious intentions and in case I feel in the future that
he has complied to what he promised.

Lost trust does not return by itself, and not easily. Some people have
harder to forgive and there is nothing wrong with that. If a person has
cheated, he must be aware that he in some peoples' eyes always will remain
a cheater. That is part of the calculated risk when violating rules in any
situation of life.

Hope |I made myself clear that I have no deviation from your thoughts, and
I also do not forgive more easily than others. However, this situation
needs all our involvement unless we are happy to cement a community divided
in honest and cheating contesters.

73 de Mats RM2D

2015-05-16 1:21 GMT+03:00 brian coyne <g4odv at yahoo.co.uk>:

> Stan & Mats,
>
> Let us be quite clear, Dim's actions were no mistake  but a pre-meditated
> and planned deception knowing the risks  involved if discovered.
> A public apology would be the right thing to do but in reality would it
> make any difference to our perception of his character? Some may forgive
> but no-one would forget.
>
>
> *To hunt a wounded wolf until the end of the horizon might help us to
> "satisfy our wish forrevenge", but does it really make things better? - *
> RM2D.
>
> That really isn't going to happen is it? The penalty which has been
> imposed is solely a DQ for the 2014 entry only, he can return for this
> years CQ events, a mere slap on the wrist in my view.
>
> Something I have learned in my time on this planet is that people do not
> change. The softly-softly, three strikes and you are out ete approaches
> to offenders adopted in these past 40/50 years have been shown not to work,
> a severe penalty for a first serious offence is the best policy. Prima-
> facia it may appear an odd analogy for me to use but consider  this - Iraq,
> Libya, Tunisia, Egypt,  who had hardline leadership had no turmoil within
> their own boundaries whilst those original leaders were in power.. Whatever
> our own opinions in the western world on those peoples limited, or lack of,
> democratic and human rights  what choices do you truly think  the peoples
> of those countries would settle for,  now or before? We live in the real
> world Mats and it is not an ideal one, your expressed thoughts on support
> and example are commendable and may succeed with minor transgressors but
> would have very limited success with the Dim's of this world.
>
> In another thread it has been mentioned that a DQ in any qualifying event
> will be a disbar to selection for a WRTC  Team, a befitting rule which has
> some teeth and no doubt will apply to Dim. I noted from those same rules
> that there are qualifying places for 'Assisted' operators therefore there
> is absolutely no reason or excuse for anybody who aspires to operate in
> WRTC to use undeclared assistance.
>
> 73  Brian  C4Z / 5B4AIZ.
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Mats Strandberg <sm6lrr at gmail.com>
> *To:* Stan Stockton <wa5rtg at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* "cq-contest at contesting.com" <cq-contest at contesting.com>; Yuri <
> ve3dz at rigexpert.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, 15 May 2015, 12:51
>
> *Subject:* Re: [CQ-Contest] Re. TO7A Debacle
>
> Very well expressed Stan,
>
> Anyone that openly admits a mistake, apologizes for it, and expresses a
> sincere desire to improve, could ultimately be forgiven (by most people at
> least).
>
> However, and this is important, the person must come to that conclusion
> himself, and then in public express his reasons for wrongdoing, and a
> trustworthy plan how to change for the better.
>
> Let us hope that this process will develop into reality eventually. I
> believe that cheaters who convert to becoming reliable and honest
> competitors again, will also have an important roll in changing other
> persons' behavior into the better. Without good examples of change, others
> will think it is impossible.
>
> We are a community based on friendship, and we have an important function
> to collectively bring people into the right thinking and ethics. If someone
> fails, it is also our obligation to be there and support that person to
> adjust behavior and return back to our community. To hunt a wounded wolf
> until the end of the horizon might help us to "satisfy our wish for
> revenge", but does it really make things better?
>
> One person is now taking the full blow, while there were dozens of cheaters
> in the 2014 CQWW. All others are in some way protected by the exposed one,
> even if their offence to our sport is the same or even worse. Log padding,
> unclaimed assistance, power cheating is the same to me. Nothing is better,
> nothing is worse.
>
> How many can with the hand on the heart say that they never cheated somehow
> in sports, card games or in contesting. There are too many, way too big
> amps out there, for all of us to be perfectly innocent. Running 3, 5 or 10
> kW is nothing better than log padding or cheating with clusters or RBN. It
> is still the same offence to those who practice 100% fair play contesting.
>
> 73 de RM2D, Mats
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2015-05-15 12:14 GMT+03:00 Stan Stockton <wa5rtg at gmail.com>:
>
> > Yuri,
> >
> > This needed to be said.  I doubt Frank was thinking very clearly when he
> > listed anything other than single op entries or entries where the log
> > submission was known to be in Dim's control and did not mean to cast
> doubt
> > on anyone and everyone who has ever operated in the same room over the
> > years.
> >
> > The committee had a strong enough belief regarding unclaimed assistance
> > that they were willing to DQ.  EA5RS found solid proof of an even more
> > major crime they had apparently not found.
> >
> > This whole thing resembled a pack of wolves going after a wounded animal.
> >
> > I feel somewhat sorry for Dim. It's very sad since he appears to be good
> > enough to perhaps win playing fair. I'm sure, like many of us, radio
> > contesting is an important thing to him.  He is ruined, but ultimately is
> > to blame for the outcome.
> >
> > Whether the contest community as a whole is willing to ever forgive him
> if
> > he is apologetic and proves he can reform his ways is a big question.
> > Personally, I hope he confesses, apologizes and asks for forgiveness.
> > Then, and only then, will we see.
> >
> > 73...Stan, K5GO
> >
> > > On May 14, 2015, at 7:39 AM, Yuri <ve3dz at rigexpert.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Good morning Frank.
> > > I see you listed UGR's WRTC results and also all his Multi Op
> > participations below.
> > > Do I understand you correctly that you also question all these scores?
> > > Do you know that all WRTC teams had onsite referees who were monitoring
> > teams audio live 24/hr?
> > > For the record - UT5UGR was my partner at WRTC 2006. Do you suggest
> that
> > the PW5X score you listed below is not legit? As well as all his other
> M/S
> > and M/M participation?
> > > Now all the people with whom he operated over the years are under
> > suspicion?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Yuri  VE3DZ/W8
> > >
> > > P.S. You missed his 1996 WRTC score (K6K) where we were partners too
> and
> > ended up being #32 (or 34?) and also UGR's WRTC 2000 score where he and
> his
> > partner were outside of top ten...
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: <donovanf at starpower.net>
> > > To: <cq-contest at contesting.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:31 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Re. TO7A Debacle
> > >
> > >
> > >> Hi Mike,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Exactly the same log padding technique is present the the 2013 and
> 2014
> > >> TO7A CQWW CW public logs. In both cases proven well beyond a
> > >> reasonable doubt.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Many of UT5UGR's logs are public, available for crowdsourcing
> feedback.
> > >> His log padding technique is now publicly known.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> There's a clear precedence for past and future actions against blatant
> > >> cheaters in our radiosport hobby: W9WNV
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Does anyone now believe that any of the records below are legitimate?
> > >> More than 30 of them are in he province of the CQ Contest Committee
> > >> If so, please email me so I can sell you a bridge.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> CQ WW DX CW Contest 1989 UT5UGR SO-SB (80m) 4-th place world.
> > >> CQ WW WPX SSB Contest 1990 UT5UGR SO-SB (40m) 7-th place world.
> > >> AA DX SSB Contest 1990 RT1U M/S 1 place world.
> > >> IARU HF World Championship 1990 RT1U M/S 4-th place world.
> > >>
> > >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest 1991 UT5UGR SO-SB (20m) 5-th place world.
> > >> IARU HF World Championship 1991 RY1U M/S 2 place world.
> > >>
> > >> WAE SSB Contest 1991 RY1U M/S 2 place EU.
> > >> IARU HF World Championship 1992 UT5UGR SO-Mixed 6-th place world.
> > >>
> > >> IARU HF World Championship 1993 UT5UGR SO-CW 7-th place world.
> > >>
> > >> IARU HF World Championship 1995 UT5UGR SO-Mixed 4-th place world.
> > >>
> > >> WAE CW Contest 1995 RU1A M/S 1 place EU.
> > >> Russian DX Contest 2000 UT5UGR SO-Mixed 1 place world.
> > >> CQ WW WPX SSB Contest 2000 UT5UGR SO-MB Assisted 7-th place world.
> > >> IARU HF World Championship 2001 UT5UGR SO-CW 10-th place world.
> > >> CQ WW WPX SSB Contest 2002 UT5UGR SO-SB (20m) Assisted 2 place world.
> > >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest 2002 UT5UGR SO-SB (80m) Assisted 2 place world.
> > >> CQ WW WPX RTTY Contest 2003 EM0U M/M 3 place world.
> > >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest 2003 EN7Z M/S 7-th place world.
> > >> IARU HF World Championship 2003 UT5UGR SO-Mixed 7-th place world.
> > >>
> > >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest 2004 UU7J M/2 4-th place world.
> > >> IARU HF World Championship 2004 UT5UGR SO-SSB 1 place world.
> > >>
> > >> CQ WW DX RTTY Contest 2004 UU7J M/S 1 place world.
> > >> CQ WW DX SSB Contest 2004 UU7J M/2 10-th place world.
> > >> CQ WW DX CW Contest 2004 UU7J M/2 9-th place world.
> > >> CQ WW WPX SSB Contest 2005 EM7J SO-SB (20m) 6-th place world.
> > >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest UU7J M/S 5-th place world.
> > >> WAE CW Contest 2005 UU7J M/S 3 place EU.
> > >> WAE SSB Contest 2005 UU7J M/S 2 place EU.
> > >> CQ WW DX RTTY Contest 2005 UU7J M/S 1 place world.
> > >> CQ WW DX CW Contest 2005 UU7J M/2 10-th place world.
> > >> WRTC 2006 PW5X 4-th place.
> > >> WAE SSB Contest 2006 UU7J M/S 3 place EU.
> > >> CQ WW DX RTTY Contest 2006 UU7J M/M 2 place world.
> > >> CQ WW DX SSB Contest 2006 UU7J M/2 6-th place world.
> > >> Russian DX Contest 2007 UT5UGR SO-Mixed 7-th place world.
> > >> CQ WW WPX SSB Contest 2007 UU7J M/2 5-th place world.
> > >> EU HF 2007 UT5UGR SO-Mixed 5-th place.
> > >> CQ WW DX RTTY Contest 2007 UU7J M/M 2 place world.
> > >> IARU HF World Championship 2008 HQ EM5HQ 2 place world.
> > >> EU HF 2008 UT5UGR SO-SSB 5-th place.
> > >> CQ WW DX CW Contest 2008 V31WA SO HP 6-th place world.
> > >> ARRL DX CW Contest 2009 FM5KC SO HP 1 place world.
> > >> IARU HF World Championship 2009 UT5UGR SO-SSB 1 place world.
> > >>
> > >> CQ WW DX SSB Contest 2009 TO7A SO-AB HP 10-th place world.
> > >> CQ WW WPX SSB Contest 2010 TO7A SO-AB HP 4-th place world.
> > >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest UT5UGR SO-SB (40m) HP Assisted 2 place world.
> > >> CQ WW DX SSB Contest 2010 TO7A SO-AB HP 11-th place world, 3 NA.
> > >> ARRL DX SSB Contest 2011 TO7A SO HP 2 place world.
> > >> IARU HF World Championship 2011 UT5UGR SO-CW 6-th place world.
> > >>
> > >> CQ WW DX CW Contest 2011 TO7A SO-AB HP 7-th place world, 2 NA.
> > >> CQ WW WPX SSB Contest 2012 UT5UGR SO-SB (160m) HP 3 place world.
> > >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest 2012 UT5UGR SO-SB (160m) HP 1 place world.
> > >> IARU HF World Championship 2012 UT5UGR SO-CW 4-th place world.
> > >>
> > >> CQ WW DX CW Contest 2012 TO7A SO-AB HP 6-th place world, 1 NA.
> > >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest 2012 UT5UGR SO-SB (80m) HP 2 place world.
> > >> IARU HF World Championship 2013 UT5UGR SO-MIX 4-th place world.
> > >>
> > >> CQ WW DX CW Contest 2013 TO7A SO-AB HP 2 place world, 1 NA.
> > >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest 2013 UT5UGR SO-SB (80m) HP 1 place world.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 73
> > >> Frank
> > >> W3LPL
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>
> > >> From: "W0MU Mike Fatchett" <w0mu at w0mu.com>
> > >> To: cq-contest at contesting.com
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 4:48:34 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Re. TO7A Debacle
> > >>
> > >> I wonder exactly what you have to do to be given a lifetime ban? This
> > >> was no accident. It was a blatant attempt to defraud the entire
> contest
> > >> and process.
> > >>
> > >> Some things are forgivable but this was planned and premeditated.
> > >>
> > >> This rotten apple should be tossed from the basket.
> > >>
> > >> Mike W0MU
> > >>
> > >>> On 5/11/2015 11:11 PM, donovanf at starpower.net wrote:
> > >>> Hi Felipe,
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Now that we all know how the 2014 TO7A log was padded with fake
> > >>> QSOs with stations who didn't send in their logs, the same pattern
> can
> > >>> probably now be found in the public log for TO7A's "2013 North
> > >>> American Record" as well.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Its not hard to find more strings of fake QSOs padded into the 2014
> > >>> TO7A public log, here's just one example:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0919 RN3GJ
> > >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0919 G3ILO
> > >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0920 G3LUW
> > >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0920 F6CEL
> > >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0921 9A2JG
> > >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0921 OK1AHG
> > >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0922 UT5URW
> > >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0922 SM5AOG
> > >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0923 HB9DAX
> > >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0923 IZ2DVI
> > >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0924 G0OGN
> > >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0924 IZ5AXA
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> 73
> > >>> Frank
> > >>> W3LPL
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: "Felipe J. Hernández" <np4zet at gmail.com>
> > >>> To: cq-contest at contesting.com
> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 1:41:17 AM
> > >>> Subject: [CQ-Contest] Re. TO7A Debacle
> > >>>
> > >>> BIll,
> > >>>
> > >>> Dont feel too bad, he still has the North American record from last
> > year
> > >>> where he beat these other fine operators
> > >>>
> > >>> 1TO7A2013SO HP ALL13,765,575 7,916 161 564 48.0UT5UGR[Cert]
> > >>> <http://cqww.com/certs/do_certificate.php?cl=TO7A&yr=2013&mode=CW
> > >2V47T2014SO
> > >>> HP ALL13,548,784 7,772 161 527 48.0N2NT[Cert]
> > >>> <http://cqww.com/certs/do_certificate.php?cl=V47T&yr=2014&mode=CW
> > >3VE2IM2014SO
> > >>> HP ALL12,326,784 7,089 162 521 42.4VE3DZ[Cert]
> > >>> <http://cqww.com/certs/do_certificate.php?cl=VE2IM&yr=2014&mode=CW
> > >48P5A2013SO
> > >>> HP ALL12,265,446 7,294 154 515 48.0W2SC
> > >>>
> > >>> Thats an amazing achievement...
> > >>>
> > >>> 73's
> > >>>
> > >>> Felipe
> > >>>
> > >>> Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 11:28:32 -0400
> > >>> From: K4XS via CQ-Contest <cq-contest at contesting.com>
> > >>> To: cq-contest at contesting.com
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] TO7A debacle
> > >>> Message-ID: <19da7e.5059234a.428224a0 at aol.com>
> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > >>>
> > >>> Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we seek to deceive.
> > >>>
> > >>> Had he submitted a "clean" log he would have still swept first place
> > for
> > >>> assisted. Now, his call is being dragged through the mud. He's a
> great
> > >>> op,
> > >>> too bad.
> > >>>
> > >>> K4XS
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> > >>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
>
>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> > >>> CQ-Contest at contesting.com
> > >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >
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