[CQ-Contest] Why some Caribbean Islands compete as South America at CQWW and other contests

Mon Nov 9 14:01:42 EST 2015

Fernando,
The only way out to what you describe is a distance-based scoring system.
Regional scoring systems will not resolver the issue.
The only way for a big portion of entrants to have chances of winning a
plaque is if points awarded were proportional to he effort that it takes to
complete a QSO.
Furthermore, that analysis can be improved wih the help of RBN statistical
data.
You talk about CQ WW DX and CQ WPX, though I think the current contest
directors are open minded and willing to make these two events even better
for everyone, the change would be so drastic, that it would require quite
some time to even consider it.

73,

Martín LU5DX
El nov 9, 2015 0:13, "PY2LED - Fernando" <py2led at fuertesind.com.br>
escribió:

> Dear Colleagues, Good day!
>
>
>
> I really appreciate all messages sent, each individual point of view,
> sharing opinions, suggestions all with education and fully respect.
>
>
>
> Join a contest like CQWW and CQWPX continues fine, exciting and I will
> always try to participate.  Recently we constructed a contest station near
> Sao Paulo and we knows very well what's the costs involved and the extras
> when we are in islands etc. We are always looking for a plaque, this is our
> target and probably from all of us.  What a pleasure when we look to the
> wall on the near future and see a lot of plaques from main contests
> worldwide. We are proud of that.
>
>
>
> But of course, in some categories, depending on your location and station
> setup, before contest starts, you already know to reach that plaque will
> not
> be possible. Here from Southeast part of Brazil, we know that is not
> possible at Multi-Multi, Multi-Two, Multi-Single...we always will loose due
> to our distance to the main ham population centers/countries like USA, EU,
> Japan in the Low Bands. Ok, we will have our country and continental
> competition what's fine. But how to become number one worldwide having the
> best antennas, radios, amps, towers, cables, automation, operators etc?
>
>
>
> To turn what I'm saying more easy to check and understand, let's please
> have
> a look at the Claimed score from CQWWSSB at Multi Operators categories took
> from 3830scores.com (where we can compare up to 5 stations):
>
>
>
> Multi-Two:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Totals
>
> 160
>
> 80
>
> 40
>
> 20
>
> 15
>
> 10
>
>
> Call
>
> Edition
>
> Class
>
> Power
>
> Score
>
> QSOs
>
> Zones
>
> Countries
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
>
> CN2R
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/2
>
> HP
>
> 39,368,266
>
> 14202
>
> 187
>
> 744
>
> 250
>
> 10
>
> 49
>
> 1513
>
> 27
>
> 107
>
> 2100
>
> 35
>
> 122
>
> 2142
>
> 39
>
> 156
>
> 4162
>
> 38
>
> 154
>
> 4035
>
> 38
>
> 156
>
>
> CN3A
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/2
>
> HP
>
> 38,007,784
>
> 14152
>
> 176
>
> 725
>
> 62
>
> 8
>
> 45
>
> 908
>
> 21
>
> 94
>
> 2178
>
> 34
>
> 125
>
> 3123
>
> 38
>
> 150
>
> 3727
>
> 38
>
> 152
>
> 4154
>
> 37
>
> 159
>
>
> PJ4Q
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/2
>
> HP
>
> 24,770,768
>
> 11247
>
> 155
>
> 593
>
> 63
>
> 11
>
> 30
>
> 504
>
> 19
>
> 77
>
> 1561
>
> 28
>
> 110
>
> 2341
>
> 34
>
> 131
>
> 3323
>
> 32
>
> 121
>
> 3455
>
> 31
>
> 124
>
>
> C4A
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/2
>
> HP
>
> 21,237,810
>
> 8903
>
> 166
>
> 668
>
> 99
>
> 8
>
> 44
>
> 493
>
> 15
>
> 72
>
> 1414
>
> 32
>
> 114
>
> 2087
>
> 37
>
> 147
>
> 2235
>
> 38
>
> 136
>
> 2574
>
> 36
>
> 155
>
>
> PX2A
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/2
>
> HP
>
> 18,302,109
>
> 8847
>
> 157
>
> 550
>
> 0
>
> 0
>
> 0
>
> 45
>
> 14
>
> 27
>
> 425
>
> 29
>
> 92
>
> 1939
>
> 37
>
> 144
>
> 2777
>
> 39
>
> 141
>
> 3661
>
> 38
>
> 146
>
>
>
>
>
> Multi-Multi:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Totals
>
> 160
>
> 80
>
> 40
>
> 20
>
> 15
>
> 10
>
>
> Call
>
> Edition
>
> Class
>
> Power
>
> Score
>
> QSOs
>
> Zones
>
> Countries
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
>
> CN2AA
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/M
>
> HP
>
> 74,585,700
>
> 23815
>
> 207
>
> 843
>
> 894
>
> 21
>
> 85
>
> 2324
>
> 31
>
> 117
>
> 3597
>
> 37
>
> 142
>
> 5814
>
> 39
>
> 164
>
> 5656
>
> 39
>
> 169
>
> 5530
>
> 40
>
> 166
>
>
> HK1NA
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/M
>
> HP
>
> 33,727,337
>
> 13867
>
> 176
>
> 657
>
> 282
>
> 16
>
> 54
>
> 629
>
> 21
>
> 80
>
> 2029
>
> 33
>
> 121
>
> 3489
>
> 37
>
> 143
>
> 3347
>
> 36
>
> 135
>
> 4030
>
> 33
>
> 124
>
>
> K3LR
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/M
>
> HP
>
> 32,520,150
>
> 12593
>
> 195
>
> 786
>
> 468
>
> 19
>
> 61
>
> 859
>
> 27
>
> 99
>
> 2375
>
> 36
>
> 137
>
> 3377
>
> 39
>
> 174
>
> 3222
>
> 40
>
> 168
>
> 2293
>
> 34
>
> 147
>
>
> PJ2T
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/M
>
> HP
>
> 29,789,720
>
> 13433
>
> 165
>
> 595
>
> 183
>
> 14
>
> 27
>
> 662
>
> 70
>
> 26
>
> 1928
>
> 30
>
> 107
>
> 2900
>
> 37
>
> 136
>
> 3899
>
> 34
>
> 127
>
> 3861
>
> 30
>
> 122
>
>
> ZW5B(@PY5EG)
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/M
>
> HP
>
> 23,497,290
>
> 9972
>
> 177
>
> 633
>
> 4
>
> 3
>
> 3
>
> 127
>
> 19
>
> 40
>
> 914
>
> 38
>
> 125
>
> 2225
>
> 39
>
> 152
>
> 2826
>
> 39
>
> 158
>
> 3876
>
> 39
>
> 155
>
>
>
>
>
> Multi-Single HP:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Totals
>
> 160
>
> 80
>
> 40
>
> 20
>
> 15
>
> 10
>
>
> Call
>
> Edition
>
> Class
>
> Power
>
> Score
>
> QSOs
>
> Zones
>
> Countries
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
>
> EF8R
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> HP
>
> 33,168,016
>
> 11973
>
> 183
>
> 749
>
> 88
>
> 11
>
> 54
>
> 642
>
> 21
>
> 93
>
> 1655
>
> 37
>
> 126
>
> 2433
>
> 38
>
> 156
>
> 2205
>
> 38
>
> 156
>
> 4950
>
> 38
>
> 164
>
>
> CR3A
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> HP
>
> 28,153,224
>
> 10468
>
> 183
>
> 719
>
> 97
>
> 13
>
> 56
>
> 658
>
> 24
>
> 96
>
> 874
>
> 34
>
> 116
>
> 2404
>
> 38
>
> 147
>
> 2205
>
> 37
>
> 149
>
> 4230
>
> 37
>
> 155
>
>
> P33W
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> HP
>
> 27,119,096
>
> 10267
>
> 182
>
> 734
>
> 188
>
> 11
>
> 60
>
> 468
>
> 20
>
> 86
>
> 1276
>
> 36
>
> 126
>
> 2670
>
> 38
>
> 154
>
> 2328
>
> 40
>
> 153
>
> 3337
>
> 37
>
> 155
>
>
> PJ4X(@PJ4G)
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> HP
>
> 19,354,856
>
> 8334
>
> 168
>
> 620
>
> 12
>
> 4
>
> 11
>
> 533
>
> 25
>
> 87
>
> 941
>
> 30
>
> 112
>
> 1697
>
> 37
>
> 135
>
> 2169
>
> 38
>
> 139
>
> 2982
>
> 34
>
> 136
>
>
> LT1F
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> HP
>
> 11,336,365
>
> 5771
>
> 158
>
> 519
>
> 4
>
> 3
>
> 4
>
> 20
>
> 11
>
> 19
>
> 532
>
> 33
>
> 102
>
> 1164
>
> 37
>
> 125
>
> 960
>
> 38
>
> 132
>
> 3091
>
> 36
>
> 137
>
>
>
> Multi-Single LP:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Totals
>
> 160
>
> 80
>
> 40
>
> 20
>
> 15
>
> 10
>
>
> Call
>
> Edition
>
> Class
>
> Power
>
> Score
>
> QSOs
>
> Zones
>
> Countries
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
>
> FY5KE
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> LP
>
> 14,427,004
>
> 6817
>
> 159
>
> 563
>
> 3
>
> 3
>
> 3
>
> 200
>
> 19
>
> 58
>
> 516
>
> 29
>
> 107
>
> 1835
>
> 36
>
> 136
>
> 1523
>
> 36
>
> 128
>
> 2740
>
> 36
>
> 131
>
>
> VP9I(@VP9GE)
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> LP
>
> 7,018,557
>
> 4771
>
> 135
>
> 476
>
> 187
>
> 7
>
> 10
>
> 504
>
> 15
>
> 61
>
> 1119
>
> 25
>
> 93
>
> 1192
>
> 32
>
> 114
>
> 1230
>
> 31
>
> 105
>
> 539
>
> 25
>
> 93
>
>
> EF7X(@EA7PP)
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> LP
>
> 5,684,625
>
> 3582
>
> 152
>
> 623
>
> 49
>
> 9
>
> 49
>
> 87
>
> 15
>
> 75
>
> 523
>
> 23
>
> 99
>
> 900
>
> 37
>
> 131
>
> 1012
>
> 36
>
> 131
>
> 1011
>
> 32
>
> 136
>
>
> KP4BD
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> LP
>
> 5,138,128
>
> 3856
>
> 131
>
> 437
>
> 13
>
> 3
>
> 11
>
> 116
>
> 13
>
> 49
>
> 346
>
> 21
>
> 70
>
> 784
>
> 33
>
> 115
>
> 1655
>
> 32
>
> 102
>
> 942
>
> 29
>
> 90
>
>
> PR1T(@PY1NB)
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> LP
>
> 4,129,990
>
> 2787
>
> 118
>
> 396
>
> 2
>
> 2
>
> 2
>
> 3
>
> 2
>
> 3
>
> 112
>
> 25
>
> 77
>
> 550
>
> 32
>
> 108
>
> 801
>
> 30
>
> 102
>
> 1318
>
> 27
>
> 104
>
>
>
>
>
> After to compare all this numbers, based in the Southeast of South America,
> I arrived on the following points:
>
> -          Ocean Islands and countries at EU and USA boundaries dominated
> this categories;
>
>
>
> -          Qsos/points from the South of South America, South of Africa and
> etc from lower latitudes on the higher bands like 10m and 15m sometimes
> arrives near qso/points amounts from the Winners BUT the qsos/points at
> lower bands starting sometimes on 20m but mainly on 40m, 80m and 160m is
> impossible to arrive closer. There is an abysm of difference.  Here we have
> a question of propagation mixed with distances, right? If yes, why not to
> suggest and/or propose new rules considering this issue?
>
>
>
> -          Stations located in the boundaries of the main ham population
> centers/countries like Caribbean Islands, Mediterranean islands and
> countries located in the north of South America, North of Africa and other
> similar areas looking to the North of the world will also do a lot more on
> 40/80/160 meters AND ALSO will do a lot on the high bands, counting 3
> points/qso.
>
>
>
> -          If you are able to construct a super contest station in a rare
> and excellent DX location (inland or offshore) with excellent openings
> during the whole 24 hours to EU and NA (this should be nice), probably will
> be on the top. But and all other stations under different conditions? Will
> compete on this category the whole life without chances?
>
>
>
> -          So the conclusion here is that stations located far way from the
> main ham population centers/countries (outside this continents) at higher
> and lower latitudes normally do very small and limited amount of
> qsos/countries/zones in 40m, 80m and 160m  that is NOT compensated by far
> in
> 10m, 15m and 20m.
>
> One possible solution could be to create a new category called "Islands"
> and
> separate it per continent.  We will have Islands Winners per Continents and
> also an World Islands Rank. One problem solved!
>
>
>
> The second situation, regarding this countries inland, located on the
> boundaries of EU or NA (North of South America/North of Africa/etc)...we
> should think in one way to balance the monsters/unbeatable scores.  If we
> don't do nothing to balance, competition will be always boring for the rest
> of the world. Let's do barbecue, beer and have fun.
>
>
>
> Thanks again for sharing ideas and taking your time with this issue, but
> it's very important.
>
>
>
> Hope to listen all of you during the next contests and some DX calls.
>
>
>
> Have a nice weekend.
>
>
>
>
>
> 73's
>
>
>
> Fernando F. R. Cordoba - PY2LED
>
> Alto da Serra Contest Station
>
> PX2A - PX2B
>
>  <mailto:py2led at fuertesind.com.br> py2led at fuertesind.com.br
>
>  <http://www.altodaserradx.com/> www.altodaserradx.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2015-11-05 2:21 GMT+03:00 Fernando PY2LED <py2led at fuertesind.com.br>:
>
> Hello Dear Contesters, good day!
>
> I was analyzing results from CQWW, CQWPX and in some categories we can see
> some nice records made by stations located in the Caribean Islands. Some of
> this islands counts like South America.
>
> It is extremelly difficult or impossible to beat their scores from South of
> Brazil, Argentina, Uruguai, Paraguai and other south countries due to the
> big distances to the main countries lime USA and some European countries.
> Also during the main contests, we have only one station (one multiplier) in
> some of this islands like Bonaire, Aruba etc and everybody will try the
> qso.
>
> I would like to understand if's there an explanation or criteria why they
> are located in South America for this contests. When we go to some
> Geography
> books, some autors gives reason why they don't include such islands at
> South
> America and they do like Caribean islands.
>
> Maybe this example applies to other parts of the world.  Why not to create
> an Islands Category or Central America or so?
>
> Would like to share and listen opinions about this issue.
>
> Many thanks and best 73's
>
>
> > Fernando Cordoba | PY2LED | PX2B
> > Sao Caetano do Sul | SP | Brasil
> > GG66rj
> > py2led at fuertesind.com.br
> > www.altodaserradx.com.br
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>
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>
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